Hey #Fediverse can I ask you a favor?

[drahardja@sfba.social]

@elduvelle Or people with poor reading comprehension?

Contrarians?

[oldcoder@dansu.org]

Um, actually, no. It's a trivial nginx or angie rule. The KISS part only enters into it in terms of the readability of the link. This part is the decision of the poster.

[citc@zotum.net]

@Dave Rahardja
Fediverse is more than woolly mammoth.

[catswander@mastodon.social]

@drahardja

No no, Dave! My thing is good different from the bad thing you said. Because I am special! 😏

[raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie]

@manalejandro
Bonkers
Post the full URL.

Short links have zero value.

[drahardja@sfba.social]

@citc You Are Very Smart

[raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie]

@manalejandro
This advice on shortening URLS is nonsense.

[raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie]

@OldCoder @drahardja
Long links do work on SMS on phone. Even on GSM!
Short links are a malware & tracking vector.

[raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie]

@drahardja @OldCoder
Short links are not good ever.

Though links can be edited to remove the ? and everything after which is tracking on sites like Amazon.
Original https://www.amazon.ie/dp/B0C6Q8J513/?coliid=I2ORM3HB52IYIR&colid=XQYVPXRHA65N&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Trimmed
https://www.amazon.ie/dp/B0C6Q8J513/

Trim links (your browser may offer it), but never anywhere use a link shortener!

[oldcoder@dansu.org]

I don't think that you've understood the technical part of what I've said. You may be unclear on what the difference between an internal and external link is.

If I host my own website, and I create two links to a post on the website, and the links are created internally to the website, it's none of your business or anybody's business which of the links I choose to post.

Here's a link to one of my posts on my own Fediverse instance [Coder Dansu]:
https://dansu.org/halloy-review

That is a short link. So what? There is no external link shortener. It's internal to the site. If you're saying "No, if there is a longer possible version of the link, you must post that!" the statement is uneducated and even ridiculous. In this context, how would you even define what a "short link" is?

That is especially true for dynamically generated pages that aren't even stored in a specific location on disk. You're trying to make some sort of Purity Test or Angels Dancing on the Head of a Pin argument. It isn't productive.

Further, if I choose to generate and manage my own short links even to external sites, I don't especially care about the Purity Test in that context either.

The approach that I've suggested has all of the advantages and none of the disadvantages of the abstinence approach that you've demanded. I'll continue to offer it to would-be #selfhosting novices.

Your comments aren't as wild-eyed as it usually goes on Twitter. But the peremptory tone isn't welcome here. You're free to offer suggestions. But this isn't a world where you can set yourself as the arbiter.

If you're posting in good faith, take this to DM [Direct Message].

[oldcoder@dansu.org]

You aren't paying attention. I try not to comment too personally here but you either aren't a native English speaker or you're not very attentive.

I've already explained repeatedly -- it must be 3 or 4 times now -- that in my proposal there are no "malware" or "tracking vector" issues. Nor "brittle" issues. Nor "compute/store" issues.

Good Grief. I see no purpose to engaging with somebody who is unable to follow basic technical points.

Not to mention the Purity Test part. It'll work better if you learn to avoid a peremptory tone on subjects where you "just know" that you're right.

[schmidt_fu@mstdn.social]

@drahardja
Yes, and moreover they have been used to deliver malware, since the endpoint can be changed at any time after posting the link (including someone buying up the domain some time in the future).
Example article:
https://cofense.com/blog/the-6-url-shorteners-you-didn-t-know-were-helping-hackers

[raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie]

@OldCoder @drahardja
A real link on your own website is nothing to do with link shorteners. It doesn't matter what it is as long has it has your actual domain.

We are not decrying short links but link shorteners. They use a 3rd party domain and a look up service. I'd not even use curl to discover what they are, because that is tracked to my IP.

The issue is 3rd party link shortening services. They are evil. Promoting them is crazier than using them. It was Twitter that created the need.

[raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie]

@OldCoder @drahardja
Your shorter link on dansu.org that expands (and it doesn't need to!) isn't what the discussion is about. It's about 3rd party services that use a 3rd party domain.

[synnef@woof.tech]

@drahardja yeah, most mainstream link shorteners are not respectful with privacy at all, when i want to access something hidden behind one i tend to just run it through virustotal to get the final link without visiting the site from my ip, it's scuffed but it works

the same could be said for social media links with source identifiers, they're a massive privacy risk for both the person who shares them and anyone who clicks without stripping them out

[thisislieven@c.im]

@drahardja It's also worth removing tracking data from the original link, which all too often comes along and many people still don't understand (though I guess this is less of an issue on the fediverse).

Basically, the first ? and anything that comes after can, and should, be removed.

Often it also makes the original link a lot shorter and cleaner, making the use of a URL shortener even less of an argument.

[oldcoder@dansu.org]

Mr. Maccarthy, you continue not to read or understand what has been said. Especially the parts about the Purity Test and peremptory tone.

Additionally, you've contradicted yourself. You're only decrying "one thing". Fine. It happens not to be what I've proposed. As the kids say, "What the Hell".

Neither I nor anybody else who has been working in the field since before you were born is likely to show you respect until you work both on your tone and on your willingness to read what's actually being said.

If I "follow" you now, it isn't to discuss this further. It's to find out more about your writing.

For what it's worth, I liked the 3 films from Cartoon Saloon in IE and especially "The Secret of Kells". I'm amused by the fact that they've put up a statue of the cartoon version of Pangur Bán at Castle Kilkenny.

If you have anything further to say of a Purity Test nature, take it to Direct Message.

For readers who aren't familiar with "The Secret of Kells":

In the attached screenshot, the girl is a forest sprite who is about to transform the kitty into a supernatural figure himself. He can enter a holy place where she cannot and so he'll be her magical agent. The kitty is Pangur Bán, one of the most famous literary #cats. Pangur Bán is dubious about the errand.

[oldcoder@dansu.org]

It's my decision as to which link to use and whether or not to be concerned about what it "expands" to. Your comment is noted but it isn't of great interest.

And if what I've proposed isn't what you're going on about, why do you keep criticizing the proposal?

As I've suggested repeatedly, though perhaps I've been too subtle, take it to Direct Message. Nothing productive will come of me needing to explain things repeatedly at the public level.

[raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie]

@OldCoder @drahardja
I have no objection at all to short links.
I have no objection to how dansu.org works.

We are obviously not discussing the same thing.

I'm only against people browsing the Internet and then using 3rd party services (which are using a 3rd party domain) posting an alias shortened link. This is nothing to do with a web site that has a short link on its own domain.

[oldcoder@dansu.org]

It isn't clear, then, why you've continued to comment repeatedly and negatively on what I've said. I've been clear about what I've proposed from the start.

Did you not notice that you were posting again and again to complain? You can't say that you were sleep-typing. It's lunch-time there now.

This is the bottom line:

I've proposed an alternative to your own Purity Test approach that has all of the advantages and none of the disadvantages. I've explained what it does and how it works. I'll share the tweak with others. I really have no interest in hearing more from you on the subject. If you've written a Pangur Bán story, feel free to link to or discuss that.