Hey #Fediverse can I ask you a favor?
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It isn't clear, then, why you've continued to comment repeatedly and negatively on what I've said. I've been clear about what I've proposed from the start.
Did you not notice that you were posting again and again to complain? You can't say that you were sleep-typing. It's lunch-time there now.
This is the bottom line:
I've proposed an alternative to your own Purity Test approach that has all of the advantages and none of the disadvantages. I've explained what it does and how it works. I'll share the tweak with others. I really have no interest in hearing more from you on the subject. If you've written a Pangur Bán story, feel free to link to or discuss that.@OldCoder @drahardja
"It isn't clear, then, why you've continued to comment repeatedly and negatively on what I've said."I think at cross purposes. I was commenting about 3rd party shortened links created by random people. Not short links.
I've edited my posts to try and make that clearer.
I'm in favour of clear, short links. -
Hey #Fediverse can I ask you a favor?
Please don’t post URLs that have been shortened. Link-shortening services can not only potentially *track* your interactions and add telemetry to track your behaviors, they can also *break* and make your links unusable.
You can use services like https://urlexpander.net or install an app (I like Link Unshortener (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/link-unshortener/id1506953658)) to find the ultimate destination of a shortened link, and then post that instead.
Remember, all URLs in #Mastodon count as 23 characters, no matter how long the actual URL is, so there really is no benefit to shortening your URLs.
@drahardja
That is so cool I didn't know this was a thing and it's nice to be able to strip away the Google trash. -
I don't think that you've understood the technical part of what I've said. You may be unclear on what the difference between an internal and external link is.
If I host my own website, and I create two links to a post on the website, and the links are created internally to the website, it's none of your business or anybody's business which of the links I choose to post.
Here's a link to one of my posts on my own Fediverse instance [Coder Dansu]:
https://dansu.org/halloy-review
That is a short link. So what? There is no external link shortener. It's internal to the site. If you're saying "No, if there is a longer possible version of the link, you must post that!" the statement is uneducated and even ridiculous. In this context, how would you even define what a "short link" is?
That is especially true for dynamically generated pages that aren't even stored in a specific location on disk. You're trying to make some sort of Purity Test or Angels Dancing on the Head of a Pin argument. It isn't productive.
Further, if I choose to generate and manage my own short links even to external sites, I don't especially care about the Purity Test in that context either.
The approach that I've suggested has all of the advantages and none of the disadvantages of the abstinence approach that you've demanded. I'll continue to offer it to would-be #selfhosting novices.
Your comments aren't as wild-eyed as it usually goes on Twitter. But the peremptory tone isn't welcome here. You're free to offer suggestions. But this isn't a world where you can set yourself as the arbiter.
If you're posting in good faith, take this to DM [Direct Message].@oldcoder @raymaccarthy @drahardja hi, I've been looking for a post like this. I'm working at a makerspace, and we want to make QR codes of links that people can scan which will take them to our wiki, so they can learn about that equipment. And I am trying to wrap my head around permalinks.
Since it is a wiki, there is a chance the title changes, the organization changes, etc, but i would like the QR code link to always point to the current page of the wiki.
Is that how a permalink works?
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filobus@sociale.network ha condiviso questa discussione
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Hey #Fediverse can I ask you a favor?
Please don’t post URLs that have been shortened. Link-shortening services can not only potentially *track* your interactions and add telemetry to track your behaviors, they can also *break* and make your links unusable.
You can use services like https://urlexpander.net or install an app (I like Link Unshortener (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/link-unshortener/id1506953658)) to find the ultimate destination of a shortened link, and then post that instead.
Remember, all URLs in #Mastodon count as 23 characters, no matter how long the actual URL is, so there really is no benefit to shortening your URLs.
@drahardja Also, where possible remove tracking parameters from URLs:
Youtube: youtu.be/<video ID>
Amazon: amazon.com/dp/ID (everything after ? in those links is mostly useless)
heise: heise.de/-<ArticleID>Also parameters like utm_foo= can be dropped too.
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@oldcoder @raymaccarthy @drahardja hi, I've been looking for a post like this. I'm working at a makerspace, and we want to make QR codes of links that people can scan which will take them to our wiki, so they can learn about that equipment. And I am trying to wrap my head around permalinks.
Since it is a wiki, there is a chance the title changes, the organization changes, etc, but i would like the QR code link to always point to the current page of the wiki.
Is that how a permalink works?
@semitones @OldCoder @drahardja
No.
A link of your wiki needs to be unchanged. You can have an alias link on your website, but if you change domain name the QR codes are all broken.
Generating the QR code is trivial. It's just a 2D pattern that decodes to a fixed text string. If a printed string for the URL gets broken, so will the URL.
My scanner app always previews and shows both text (as a link if applicable) and possible apps to "send" it to, apart from the browser.
Madness to not preview. -
Hey #Fediverse can I ask you a favor?
Please don’t post URLs that have been shortened. Link-shortening services can not only potentially *track* your interactions and add telemetry to track your behaviors, they can also *break* and make your links unusable.
You can use services like https://urlexpander.net or install an app (I like Link Unshortener (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/link-unshortener/id1506953658)) to find the ultimate destination of a shortened link, and then post that instead.
Remember, all URLs in #Mastodon count as 23 characters, no matter how long the actual URL is, so there really is no benefit to shortening your URLs.
@drahardja I heard that the DDG browser has a clean copy function now for copying urls so it strips out tracking stuff. I am no expert on this so is this a good alternative in some ways?
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The issue isn't about "need". It's about the question of who has the right to make the decision. I should add that Mr. Maccarthy has commented in DM that there does seem to have been a misunderstanding.
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Thank you for the point and suggestion. I trust that a number of people will follow it.
I disagree that the alternative is completely unnecessary. Some posters prefer links that are human-readable. If the key goals are met, it isn't essential that everybody use the same approach.
In my case, I like to give out some of my short links by text message or phone. That isn't possible with long links.
My short links are my own code. They don't track anybody and I'll keep them working while I'm alive. They also usually point to my own posts. It isn't for anybody else to tell me that I must use one link to my own posts and not another.@OldCoder I think you missed the Mastodon user agreement, “it is essential that everybody use the same approach.” : ) Remember: the problem isn’t the structural incentives for the company misusing technology; it isn’t the people implementing the misuse of the technology in the company; it is the casual user of the tech. /sarcasm : despite a technology that allows 10000 flowers to bloom we as a group like to nag people into homogeneity. Possibly some UX is nicer for the people who can comply.
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Mr. Rossolini: The issue isn't about who "needs" the technical solution that I took the time to write up.
I don't "need", myself, to be told repeatedly that people don't like the use of external link shorteners.
I happen to have been a senior code and data architect a generation, it appears, before you were born. I wrote or assembled much of the infrastructure that this post is being made on. This includes the Linux distro itself. I've been building that for 30 years.
I have a little time left to live. I try to put it to good use. So, in this case, I explained that there was an alternative which had all of the advantages and none of the disadvantages. Repeat, net improvement that isn't net. No downside. It shouldn't be as difficult as I gather that it is to follow that much.
Two people repeated their extreme dislike of a mechanism that had nothing to do with my own. Again and again. Now you're offering to extend the same thread.
I'll add that Mr. Maccarthy has commented in DM that there has probably been a misunderstanding. He agrees that he and I were talking about different things.
In your case, you're retorting that my solution has a "very limited" use case. That isn't true. However, if it is true, so what?
More importantly, you've added that the "overwhelming majority of people do not need to shorten their links".
Why would you tell me that? How is it relevant to any part of my point?
You don't believe that you're a dullard or a troll. So, pause and consider this: What was the point of that statement? How is it relevant to the question of whether or not what I proposed would work as advertised?
How would any person who was talking about something else react? Why would anybody wish to respond to you except to tell you to truck off?
I've hosting and running Fediverse nodes for 6 years. [Initially Mastodon and presently Pleroma and PeerTube.] I've written and responded to perhaps a thousand posts.
But I've never felt so much that I was back in Twitter until I woke up a few minutes ago and found the post from you which contributes nothing of merit to a discussion and is indicative of little more than mindless dogpile. -
@OldCoder I think you missed the Mastodon user agreement, “it is essential that everybody use the same approach.” : ) Remember: the problem isn’t the structural incentives for the company misusing technology; it isn’t the people implementing the misuse of the technology in the company; it is the casual user of the tech. /sarcasm : despite a technology that allows 10000 flowers to bloom we as a group like to nag people into homogeneity. Possibly some UX is nicer for the people who can comply.
Thank you for commenting productively.
I've started a more productive discussion with 1 of the 3 people in DM. He seems to be saying that he just wanted to emphasize his views. The problem was that his views had nothing to do with what I was saying.
The latest person seems to be riding on the same train. I'm appreciative that the Fediverse lacks some of the dogpile features that Twitter has. I'd be buried under a dogpile by now otherwise. Woof. -
Hey #Fediverse can I ask you a favor?
Please don’t post URLs that have been shortened. Link-shortening services can not only potentially *track* your interactions and add telemetry to track your behaviors, they can also *break* and make your links unusable.
You can use services like https://urlexpander.net or install an app (I like Link Unshortener (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/link-unshortener/id1506953658)) to find the ultimate destination of a shortened link, and then post that instead.
Remember, all URLs in #Mastodon count as 23 characters, no matter how long the actual URL is, so there really is no benefit to shortening your URLs.
@drahardja
I'm seeing this a lot with 20 year old posts I'm going through. "Omg this is the best joke ever! ...bit.ly..." -
@drahardja
Yes, and moreover they have been used to deliver malware, since the endpoint can be changed at any time after posting the link (including someone buying up the domain some time in the future).
Example article:
https://cofense.com/blog/the-6-url-shorteners-you-didn-t-know-were-helping-hackers@schmidt_fu @drahardja @andrewabernathy also those"archive" sites that steal articles from behind paywalls are *not* your friends
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Hey #Fediverse can I ask you a favor?
Please don’t post URLs that have been shortened. Link-shortening services can not only potentially *track* your interactions and add telemetry to track your behaviors, they can also *break* and make your links unusable.
You can use services like https://urlexpander.net or install an app (I like Link Unshortener (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/link-unshortener/id1506953658)) to find the ultimate destination of a shortened link, and then post that instead.
Remember, all URLs in #Mastodon count as 23 characters, no matter how long the actual URL is, so there really is no benefit to shortening your URLs.
@drahardja Thank you for your post. Another thing people aren't aware of is how often gmail and other providers like microsoft add redirects to links in your email.
On my Android phone I use URLCheck (I think from FDroid) to show the real link prior to giving you the choice of clearing redirects and embedded parameters in the link and then open with your a selectable browser of choice on your phone.
Link to the project: https://github.com/TrianguloY/UrlChecker
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Mr. Rossolini: Excuse me, but the fact that the thread "wasn't [mine] to begin with" is irrelevant. In a public discussion, in most cases, anybody is free to contribute.
However, if they direct criticism at somebody, it had better be relevant to what the target has said.
I offered technical details for a tweak that had all of the advantages of an approach which had been proposed and none of the disadvantages. You commented in a critical manner based solely on your dislike of something that I hadn't advocated. The first type of comment is reasonable. The second type, not so much.
Regarding whether or not I'm "assuming much", the primary "assuming" that I've done is simply to guess that you're in the age range of 30 to 45.
I never said that I'd made contributions of great import to anybody. In fact, there are a few interesting stories for another time. But that wasn't my point. My point was that I didn't need to be educated by you.
I never said or implied that you haven't made contributions. For all I know, you may have found a way to split the beer atom. [Reference: "Young Einstein".]
What I do know is that you responded to me as though I was advocating the thing that you disliked. You had no interest in what I had actually said. This was a dogpile, straight out of Twitter. If it wasn't for the different architecture of the Fediverse, I'd have been buried in a flood of the same thing.
It isn't as enjoyable as you imagined that I'd find it. -
@emersunn To be clear: it wasn’t a subtoot. But I’m glad to hear it!
@drahardja No worries! I should have said, “I learned something and will apply it in the future” but my lazy ass didn’t want to type all that out! 😂
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@GuillaumeRossolini @drahardja
"There is also an issue with trimming the query string, as has been suggested in this thread. Unless you know for a fact which parameters are extraneous, I’d advise not to trim the URL since that could make the target output very different from the intended output "Yes, you have to test it before "sharing it". I do that.
Edit: Not foolproof if the content is depending on you being logged in. But then even untrimmed may fail.
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This is the first of your posts where you've said anything relevant and substantive.
Upon first glance [I'll read it more closely] none of it offers any supportable justification for negative comments on what I posted myself. The fact is that you joined a dogpile to vent about your feelings and not to say anything useful.
However, you've invested time and effort now in reasoned points on the broader issue. That is to be respected.
I've spent most of the last 12 hours in the Fediverse. [I slept from about 5:30am to 8:30am local time.] This isn't usual for me. I have other business to attend to presently. Allow me the day. I'll comment on specifics to the extent possible before Monday morning in my time zone. -
@catsalad https://www.reallylong.link/
Honorable mention:
https://creepylink.com/ -
@catsalad
Don't cause another Elon-gate.
@drahardja -
@drahardja I heard that the DDG browser has a clean copy function now for copying urls so it strips out tracking stuff. I am no expert on this so is this a good alternative in some ways?
@dmacphee I don’t know…I should check it out!
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