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  4. Right, fediverse, let me know what you think.

Right, fediverse, let me know what you think.

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mastodonfediversemoderationpostdeletion
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  • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
    aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
    aral@mastodon.ar.al
    scritto ultima modifica di
    #1

    Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.

    Mastodon instance moderators should…

    #mastodon #fediverse #moderation #postDeletion

    raphv@social.edu.nlundefined aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined zleap@techhub.socialundefined montgomerygator@fouroclockfarms.clubundefined bob@epicyon.libreserver.orgundefined 20 Risposte Ultima Risposta
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    • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined aral@mastodon.ar.al

      Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.

      Mastodon instance moderators should…

      #mastodon #fediverse #moderation #postDeletion

      raphv@social.edu.nlundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
      raphv@social.edu.nlundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
      raphv@social.edu.nl
      scritto ultima modifica di
      #2

      @aral that's how you prevent a platform from becoming a nazi bar. You don't just kindly ask your guests to cover their swastika tattoos while they're in the bar.

      aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
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      • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined aral@mastodon.ar.al

        Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.

        Mastodon instance moderators should…

        #mastodon #fediverse #moderation #postDeletion

        aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
        aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
        aral@mastodon.ar.al
        scritto ultima modifica di
        #3

        (Personally, option 1 feels like a violation to me – content belongs to the author not to the host and moderators should no more be deleting other people’s posts than they should be editing them – while option 2 – especially combined with a limit and/or suspension or the threat thereof – is well within the rights of the host regardless of whether I agree with the actual moderation decision itself. Option 1 feels like censorship while option 2 – while it could easily constitute censorship – feels more like moderation to me.)

        eslam94@mastodon.socialundefined tbzhg@mastodon.scotundefined rooftopjaxx@kolektiva.socialundefined grob@mstdn.socialundefined alien@mastodon.greenundefined 6 Risposte Ultima Risposta
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        • raphv@social.edu.nlundefined raphv@social.edu.nl

          @aral that's how you prevent a platform from becoming a nazi bar. You don't just kindly ask your guests to cover their swastika tattoos while they're in the bar.

          aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
          aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
          aral@mastodon.ar.al
          scritto ultima modifica di
          #4

          @raphv You can suspend their account.

          This isn’t about whether you should be moderating or not.

          It’s about whether you should be able to delete their posts.

          If someone is posting swastikas I would expect their account to be suspended because the swastika is the symptom and deleting the post isn’t going to delete the Nazi.

          kaifi@pitha.socialundefined gabboman@gabboman.xyzundefined 2 Risposte Ultima Risposta
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          • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined aral@mastodon.ar.al

            (Personally, option 1 feels like a violation to me – content belongs to the author not to the host and moderators should no more be deleting other people’s posts than they should be editing them – while option 2 – especially combined with a limit and/or suspension or the threat thereof – is well within the rights of the host regardless of whether I agree with the actual moderation decision itself. Option 1 feels like censorship while option 2 – while it could easily constitute censorship – feels more like moderation to me.)

            eslam94@mastodon.socialundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
            eslam94@mastodon.socialundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
            eslam94@mastodon.social
            scritto ultima modifica di
            #5

            @aral I believe the author should maintain order without being chaotic. If order is disrupted, the host should intervene, otherwise it will become a jungle.

            aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
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            • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined aral@mastodon.ar.al

              @raphv You can suspend their account.

              This isn’t about whether you should be moderating or not.

              It’s about whether you should be able to delete their posts.

              If someone is posting swastikas I would expect their account to be suspended because the swastika is the symptom and deleting the post isn’t going to delete the Nazi.

              kaifi@pitha.socialundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
              kaifi@pitha.socialundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
              kaifi@pitha.social
              scritto ultima modifica di
              #6

              @aral @raphv Yes, suspending is better than just deleting the post. Makes the Nazi "feel" the impact of doing his shenanigans.

              1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
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              • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined aral@mastodon.ar.al

                Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.

                Mastodon instance moderators should…

                #mastodon #fediverse #moderation #postDeletion

                zleap@techhub.socialundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                zleap@techhub.socialundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                zleap@techhub.social
                scritto ultima modifica di
                #7

                @aral

                I think we have seen with mainstream social media, posts of an illegal nature, racism, antisemitism and 'trends' some of which are dangerous, so moderators need now need to protect users from certain content, on the other hand, having this content on there gives a chance to challenge the views presented, something we are good at here.

                If the law is broken, then evidence needs to also be preserved. If there is extreme content then just deleting it, won't stop it being posted again in the future, the authorities and society need help to tackle these processes at the source.

                Education is still the key to this, and education starts at home with the parents / .
                legal guardians.

                aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                0
                • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined aral@mastodon.ar.al

                  Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.

                  Mastodon instance moderators should…

                  #mastodon #fediverse #moderation #postDeletion

                  montgomerygator@fouroclockfarms.clubundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                  montgomerygator@fouroclockfarms.clubundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                  montgomerygator@fouroclockfarms.club
                  scritto ultima modifica di
                  #8

                  @aral Delete their posts, while making it appear that it is still up. A shadow deletion.

                  aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
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                  • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined aral@mastodon.ar.al

                    @raphv You can suspend their account.

                    This isn’t about whether you should be moderating or not.

                    It’s about whether you should be able to delete their posts.

                    If someone is posting swastikas I would expect their account to be suspended because the swastika is the symptom and deleting the post isn’t going to delete the Nazi.

                    gabboman@gabboman.xyzundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                    gabboman@gabboman.xyzundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                    gabboman@gabboman.xyz
                    scritto ultima modifica di
                    #9

                    @aral@mastodon.ar.al @raphv@social.edu.nl

                    Sometimes the ofense is big enough to nuke the post, warn the user and say “either behave or move to another instance”

                    Its not always as cut and dry

                    1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
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                    • zleap@techhub.socialundefined zleap@techhub.social

                      @aral

                      I think we have seen with mainstream social media, posts of an illegal nature, racism, antisemitism and 'trends' some of which are dangerous, so moderators need now need to protect users from certain content, on the other hand, having this content on there gives a chance to challenge the views presented, something we are good at here.

                      If the law is broken, then evidence needs to also be preserved. If there is extreme content then just deleting it, won't stop it being posted again in the future, the authorities and society need help to tackle these processes at the source.

                      Education is still the key to this, and education starts at home with the parents / .
                      legal guardians.

                      aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                      aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                      aral@mastodon.ar.al
                      scritto ultima modifica di
                      #10

                      @zleap Again, the issue I’m asking about here isn’t whether moderators should be able to moderate. It’s a very specific moderation question:

                      Should I be able to delete your posts?

                      Not should I be able to moderate you if you’re on my instance or should I be able to limit or suspend your account.

                      Very specifically:

                      Should I be able to delete your post or should I only be able to ask you to delete it (to unsuspend your account or on threat of suspension, for example).

                      aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined zleap@techhub.socialundefined 2 Risposte Ultima Risposta
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                      • eslam94@mastodon.socialundefined eslam94@mastodon.social

                        @aral I believe the author should maintain order without being chaotic. If order is disrupted, the host should intervene, otherwise it will become a jungle.

                        aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                        aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                        aral@mastodon.ar.al
                        scritto ultima modifica di
                        #11

                        @eslam94 Hi Eslam, I am not asking whether or not moderation should exist.

                        I’m asking a very specific moderation policy question:

                        Should I be able to delete your posts or should I, for example, suspend your account and ask you to delete your own post if you want your account unsuspended?

                        There is a big difference between the two as to how we view the ownership of what is posted.

                        eslam94@mastodon.socialundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                        0
                        • montgomerygator@fouroclockfarms.clubundefined montgomerygator@fouroclockfarms.club

                          @aral Delete their posts, while making it appear that it is still up. A shadow deletion.

                          aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                          aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                          aral@mastodon.ar.al
                          scritto ultima modifica di
                          #12

                          @MontgomeryGator Wow, ok.

                          That’s just… terrible?

                          1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                          0
                          • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined aral@mastodon.ar.al

                            Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.

                            Mastodon instance moderators should…

                            #mastodon #fediverse #moderation #postDeletion

                            bob@epicyon.libreserver.orgundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                            bob@epicyon.libreserver.orgundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                            bob@epicyon.libreserver.org
                            scritto ultima modifica di
                            #13

                            @aral Admins or moderators should always be able to delete posts or accounts. They are the ones who carry the legal liability for publication.

                            Long ago when Gargron was just a baby dev, isis started showing up on what was then the fediverse. Their accounts got deleted. No discussion or debate. Just delete. I am now nostalgic for a time when admins had some sort of backbone, and fascist stuff was rejected without fuss.

                            aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
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                            • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined aral@mastodon.ar.al

                              @zleap Again, the issue I’m asking about here isn’t whether moderators should be able to moderate. It’s a very specific moderation question:

                              Should I be able to delete your posts?

                              Not should I be able to moderate you if you’re on my instance or should I be able to limit or suspend your account.

                              Very specifically:

                              Should I be able to delete your post or should I only be able to ask you to delete it (to unsuspend your account or on threat of suspension, for example).

                              aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                              aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                              aral@mastodon.ar.al
                              scritto ultima modifica di
                              #14

                              @zleap Also, I wonder if the response would be different if I’d asked if moderators should be able to edit other people’s posts.

                              If I have a three-post thread and they delete the second one, that’s basically an edit.

                              1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
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                              • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined aral@mastodon.ar.al

                                @eslam94 Hi Eslam, I am not asking whether or not moderation should exist.

                                I’m asking a very specific moderation policy question:

                                Should I be able to delete your posts or should I, for example, suspend your account and ask you to delete your own post if you want your account unsuspended?

                                There is a big difference between the two as to how we view the ownership of what is posted.

                                eslam94@mastodon.socialundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                eslam94@mastodon.socialundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                eslam94@mastodon.social
                                scritto ultima modifica di
                                #15

                                @aral Good morning, Aral
                                “Freedom without responsibility turns platforms into chaos. I don’t think moderators should control people’s voices completely by deleting everything themselves, but there also has to be accountability. If someone breaks clear rules, suspending the account and asking the person to remove the post themselves makes more sense to me — because it keeps responsibility on the user, not on moderators acting like owners of everyone’s speech

                                1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                                0
                                • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined aral@mastodon.ar.al

                                  @zleap Again, the issue I’m asking about here isn’t whether moderators should be able to moderate. It’s a very specific moderation question:

                                  Should I be able to delete your posts?

                                  Not should I be able to moderate you if you’re on my instance or should I be able to limit or suspend your account.

                                  Very specifically:

                                  Should I be able to delete your post or should I only be able to ask you to delete it (to unsuspend your account or on threat of suspension, for example).

                                  zleap@techhub.socialundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                  zleap@techhub.socialundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                  zleap@techhub.social
                                  scritto ultima modifica di
                                  #16

                                  @aral

                                  "if you’re on my instance or should I be able to limit or suspend your account."

                                  In this case YES, your instance your rules as long as that is made clear on sign up (which it is) then there should not be a problem, if people don't like following rules, they can set up their own instance, and take on associated costs, risks or liabilities that come from that.

                                  greenwhale@dice.campundefined 1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                                  0
                                  • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined aral@mastodon.ar.al

                                    Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.

                                    Mastodon instance moderators should…

                                    #mastodon #fediverse #moderation #postDeletion

                                    thibaut@mamot.frundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                    thibaut@mamot.frundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                    thibaut@mamot.fr
                                    scritto ultima modifica di
                                    #17

                                    @aral I think instance moderators should be able to delete people's posts, if needed, but it would be great to pair it with a system that would allow the users of that instance to access the list of deleted posts during a specific time, to ensure that there is no abuse from the moderator.

                                    1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                                    0
                                    • bob@epicyon.libreserver.orgundefined bob@epicyon.libreserver.org

                                      @aral Admins or moderators should always be able to delete posts or accounts. They are the ones who carry the legal liability for publication.

                                      Long ago when Gargron was just a baby dev, isis started showing up on what was then the fediverse. Their accounts got deleted. No discussion or debate. Just delete. I am now nostalgic for a time when admins had some sort of backbone, and fascist stuff was rejected without fuss.

                                      aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                      aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                      aral@mastodon.ar.al
                                      scritto ultima modifica di
                                      #18

                                      @bob Accounts: agreed.

                                      Individual posts: this is where I have a problem.

                                      Limit the account: sure
                                      Suspend the account: sure
                                      Delete the account: sure

                                      Suspend the account or threaten to suspend it if person doesn’t delete a certain post: sure

                                      But the person who wrote it should be the one who deletes it if it’s the post and not the person that is seen as problematic.

                                      Otherwise, you’re saying the content doesn’t belong to the author, it belongs to the host.

                                      If deleting other people’s posts is all right, why not also edit other people’s posts to reword them or remove the problematic bits as deemed by the particular moderators of a particular server?

                                      So, again, this isn’t about whether there should be moderation. It’s a very specific question about where we draw the lines as to who owns the content they author and who has a right to delete it versus, say, remove it from view or ask the person to go elsewhere.

                                      1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                                      0
                                      • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined aral@mastodon.ar.al

                                        (Personally, option 1 feels like a violation to me – content belongs to the author not to the host and moderators should no more be deleting other people’s posts than they should be editing them – while option 2 – especially combined with a limit and/or suspension or the threat thereof – is well within the rights of the host regardless of whether I agree with the actual moderation decision itself. Option 1 feels like censorship while option 2 – while it could easily constitute censorship – feels more like moderation to me.)

                                        tbzhg@mastodon.scotundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                        tbzhg@mastodon.scotundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                        tbzhg@mastodon.scot
                                        scritto ultima modifica di
                                        #19

                                        @aral I agree. One way could be an option for moderators, when asking people to delete their post, to mark the post as "not conform" (as on twitter with the "note under the post") for other people to know that it's not good, and if the author does not comply, then either to delete the post or to remove the account.
                                        Deleting a post is to harsh, at least directly.

                                        1 Risposta Ultima Risposta
                                        0
                                        • aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined aral@mastodon.ar.al

                                          (Personally, option 1 feels like a violation to me – content belongs to the author not to the host and moderators should no more be deleting other people’s posts than they should be editing them – while option 2 – especially combined with a limit and/or suspension or the threat thereof – is well within the rights of the host regardless of whether I agree with the actual moderation decision itself. Option 1 feels like censorship while option 2 – while it could easily constitute censorship – feels more like moderation to me.)

                                          rooftopjaxx@kolektiva.socialundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                          rooftopjaxx@kolektiva.socialundefined Questo utente è esterno a questo forum
                                          rooftopjaxx@kolektiva.social
                                          scritto ultima modifica di
                                          #20

                                          @aral Is there perhaps a third way whereby the moderator hides the offending post as opposed to suspending the whole account until the issue is resolved?

                                          aral@mastodon.ar.alundefined rooftopjaxx@kolektiva.socialundefined 2 Risposte Ultima Risposta
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