We definitely need the 1.0 release of Lemmy now more than ever...
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Why bother, if they want a good community they will seek one out. Growth isn’t necessarily good for this place.
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Any pushing you can do is probably not going to help. Last time it was some API shit that actually generated a small amount of outrage enough to move a small amount of people. Apathy, habit and lock-in will tend to defeat that, so unless this gets people at least as pissed as whatever the API thing was, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Also, y'know, reddit... maybe it's just as well.
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Why bother, if they want a good community they will seek one out. Growth isn’t necessarily good for this place.
I agree, make the place too big and it will become unmanageable the same way it went for reddit.
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Why bother, if they want a good community they will seek one out. Growth isn’t necessarily good for this place.
Overgrowth certainly would have some drawbacks, but stagnation probably isn't good either
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Overgrowth certainly would have some drawbacks, but stagnation probably isn't good either
I find the fediverse to be quite lively (more than reddit) even if it doesnt have 5 posts a second. Quality > Quantity. Would rather have 1 good post that gets engagement than 10 shitposts nobody ever sees.
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Nope, it's the best secret of the internet.
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While I think there's some merit to the idea of talking about the fediverse on corporate legacy social media platforms, I think the best and most effective thing we can do is put in extra effort to engage with the fediverse itself, making posts and comments, building up new communities, and so on.
Reddit is no doubt getting worse and more closed off all the time. They treat their users like shit, or at least, like a resource to be harvested for profit. But at the same time, Reddit users will sit around complaining about the platform until the cows come up, but when it comes time to do anything about it (like, for example, go check out the fediverse...) they don't ever take any action. And this problem isn't unique to Reddit either, people just love to complain about X on X, complain about Facebook on Facebook, complain about Tiktok on Tiktok, etc. It's hard to tell how much of that is just performative internet shit vs genuine addiction to their particular algorithm of choice, but in my view it's a real problem...
In other words, the question is "where we should be spending our energy?"
Should we be spending it on Reddit, trying to convince a bunch of people (who frankly range from ambivalent to straight-up addicted) that Reddit sucks? Or should we spend it here on the fediverse building the communities from the ground up?
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Fun fact, safereddit.com still works perfectly fine as a frontend in my experience! (not the only one out there, just an instance of redlib If you need to bypass the login requirement just add "safe" before "reddit" in the URL and it should let you in :)
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Why bother, if they want a good community they will seek one out. Growth isn’t necessarily good for this place.
I'd say the fediverse is somewhat protected against the drawbacks of growth in a way Reddit isn't.
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It's always worth pushing for the fediverse.
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While I think there's some merit to the idea of talking about the fediverse on corporate legacy social media platforms, I think the best and most effective thing we can do is put in extra effort to engage with the fediverse itself, making posts and comments, building up new communities, and so on.
Reddit is no doubt getting worse and more closed off all the time. They treat their users like shit, or at least, like a resource to be harvested for profit. But at the same time, Reddit users will sit around complaining about the platform until the cows come up, but when it comes time to do anything about it (like, for example, go check out the fediverse...) they don't ever take any action. And this problem isn't unique to Reddit either, people just love to complain about X on X, complain about Facebook on Facebook, complain about Tiktok on Tiktok, etc. It's hard to tell how much of that is just performative internet shit vs genuine addiction to their particular algorithm of choice, but in my view it's a real problem...
In other words, the question is "where we should be spending our energy?"
Should we be spending it on Reddit, trying to convince a bunch of people (who frankly range from ambivalent to straight-up addicted) that Reddit sucks? Or should we spend it here on the fediverse building the communities from the ground up?
I'd guess there is a balance to be struck.
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I find the fediverse to be quite lively (more than reddit) even if it doesnt have 5 posts a second. Quality > Quantity. Would rather have 1 good post that gets engagement than 10 shitposts nobody ever sees.
goes back to lemmy where every 10th post is a shitpost about beans
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I'd say the fediverse is somewhat protected against the drawbacks of growth in a way Reddit isn't.
As long as instance owners can handle the traffic, yes.
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Why bother, if they want a good community they will seek one out. Growth isn’t necessarily good for this place.
we at least need to make sure we don't shrink, which can sneak up on you and be difficult to stop, better to maintain some growth
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They instaban people who talk about Lemmy. It's useless.
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I'd say the fediverse is somewhat protected against the drawbacks of growth in a way Reddit isn't.
eh, kinda? Decentralisation means one instance can learn from the failures of another, and there's bo one thing that can bring the entire Fediverse down. But that's a worst case scenario.
What I fear is this: A spike of interest in the fediverse leads to many instances being overwhelmed, and the general newbie experience quickly turns many people away, leading to lots of people leaving with a sour taste. In the meantime, instances successfully adapt and new ones spring up, but most users aren't coming back.
Imo that's a more realistic scenario than some grandiose failure, and you could say it's already happened several times.
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Honestly I've given up on encouraging people to do things to better themselves. We've had open source technology for a very long time. The Fediverse has been pretty mature for a good while now. Xitter and Reddit have been through many rounds of appalling enshittification, not to mention Meta.
RSS is as old as the internet but people overwhelmingly choose Apple News and other dumb shit.
Email is as old as the internet but people overwhelmingly choose corporate platforms like Gmail.
Podcasts are ancient but people overwhelmingly choose to use platforms like Spotify, and worse, YouTube.
People just overwhelmingly make bad decisions, and have been for decades so, yeah, I'm exhausted.
I used to ask people to switch and they would ask "why?" and I would be so appalled that they would even ask the question because, how could you not know any of the litany of reasons to get off this fucking platform?
Sometimes they ask and I explain and then the only thing that changes is that they think I'm a weirdo.
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This may be unpopular to say here, but the fediverse needs to be less toxic for the average user. I'm probably going to be downvoted to hell for this, but here goes: the whole tesseract situation was a clusterfuck and the dev is a jackass, but in one regard he is right - there is a toxicity problem. I mean, let's look at it:
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Lemmy's main dev is what many would refer to as a tankie. He regularly spreads misinformation, supporting fascist governments, so long as they claim to be socialist or communist - and don't belong to the west. Anything the West does is, by definition, evil.
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Lemmy's flagship instance is lemmy.ml. An instance where many communities have a "be nice" rule, but say anything against the (similarly aligned) group think and you'll be ridiculed, insulted, and banned. Meanwhile, some pretty insane calls for violence stay up. And lemmy.ml isn't even the worst in that corner of the fediverse.
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There are many other instances that aren't great, either. Wander into an instance and accidentally say something absolutely factual that someone doesn't like - ban, because some thin skinned mod sees it as derogatory. Remember the whole dragonfucker saga? Yeah, that's very off-putting to your average user.
Look, I'm no stranger to Reddit group think, I've had it turn on me, and trust me, it's no fun. Hell, I've had it on Facebook back when that was still a thing (yeah, I'm dating myself here). But it was nothing on what I've seen on here. I've been able to avoid it here (or, sometimes I've purposefully wandered into it in an attempt to disrupt an echo chamber, but then I knew exactly what I was getting into and expected as much), but what I saw happening to others - holy shit. I mean, to be fair, the instance I'm on is an instance that very rarely defederates, which I like because I like seeing different viewpoints including ones with which I vehemently disagree with (although the viewpoints are very unbalanced, that does have to be said). But it's a hell of a lot more fun to not have to keep your guard up all the time.
So, you might argue, be careful which instance you chose. OK, so I chose an instance like Lemmy.world, which as far as Lemmy goes, is definitely more on the normal side of things. But then, who are they federated with? The next rabbit hole. And how do you know which ones have less crazies? Experience. And as a saying goes, experience is what you needed just before you got it. Then many people suggest putting together blocklist and what not. Another rabbit hole. Put briefly: it involves work, a lot of it. People aren't on Reddit to work (for the most part), they're there to have fun. If you need to put in so much work, at some point it's not fun anymore. And that's what's off-putting for the typical user.
What can be done to make it more palatable for normal users? I honestly don't know. I see it as a chicken and egg problem. We need more "normal" people to drown out the crazies, but then the "normal" people won't come because of the crazies. Maybe Piefed is better in that regard - although I've heard there were/are?tesseract-style problems there, as well - I just haven't had the nerve to go down yet another rabbit hole to figure out what's actually going on. Which brings us back to square one - that's already gone way, way too far for the average user. And I can't exactly blame them. I'm "only" here because I care about open source and decentralisation. And I insist on staying here on matter of principle. But I can't in good faith recommend it to anyone I know IRL.
Anyway, sorry for the long rant. Maybe someone has some better ideas.
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Lemmy needs to grow organically, so communities can form their own cultures, instead of importing it wholesale from the largest forum on the internet.
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