Easy for you. Not for non technologiests.
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Dan Goodin
@dangoodin@infosec.exchange
Posts
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on: -
Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:I take it you've never been a member of a union or non-technologist non-profit org.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:Yes, because you're a technologist and they're not. Patronizing them is counterproductive.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on: -
Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:Fair, but that doesn't change the fact that moving to decentralized platforms adds more friction than non-technologists can tolerate.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:You're doing the lord's work, Varx!
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:And these unions aren't using any of the platforms listed in my OP? Impressive if so.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:Right, and often, from there, many of these folks go on to blame the non-technical folks. That only compounds the problem.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:The privacy of sensitive union discussions is most def a battle worth picking.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:I appreciate everyone who has taken time to respond. Unfortunately, some of the responses demonstrate how much many of us privacy-minded technologists live in ivory towers and have no idea how hard it is to get the rest of the world to take on the added friction of switching.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:I'll give it another look. Thanks.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on: -
Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:Agreed. I'd love to start with Slack, but Matrix and other alternatives aren't usable for people whose mission is outside of tech (and even many whose mission IS tech oriented).
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:I think you're underestimating the friction many of your suggested alternatives add to non-technical, non-privacy-minded folks. Conving my union to move off of Slack has failed and will continue to fail until the alternatives become as usable.
Yes, people CAN use alternatives, but the vast majority won't until they get much better.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:Yes, exactly. Try using Matrix in a 100+ union made up of mostly non technologists. The added friction makes alternatives a non starter.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:Do you have experience with unions? The ones I know (my wife's and the 3 unions I have been a member of) most definitely don't have the resources required.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:Not to mention the non-trivial amount of work required. With Slack, you can register and account and host hundreds of people in 5 minutes. None of the Slack alternatives are that easy.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:You're talking like a privacy-minded technologist. We are a minority. For people who lack tech skills, almost all of the alternatives are unusable to the average person.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:My biggest concern with my union is its deep reliance on Slack, seconded by Zoom. Yes, there are Slack alternatives, but all of them require a large amount of admin work from someone with a fair amount of experience. They also lack much of the usability features of Slack. (Zoom alternatives are also not suitable for a union our size.) I posted a query a few months ago seeking Slack alternatives. I got a lot of suggestions and I investigated each one. NONE of them were suitable, given our limited resources.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:Agreed. But no one seems to be doing that sucessfully, with maybe the exception of Signal and maybe Mastodon. Yes, others are trying but the usability is often lacking and the security is untested.