Right, fediverse, let me know what you think.
-
Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.
Mastodon instance moderators should…
@aral
Ask people to delete their post with reasons why. If they refuse then delete but there should be more than one moderator. I've seen folks posts that were deleted that didn't seem in anyway problematic -
@aral I, a non-moderator, want the power to delete OTHER people's posts.
I am a good kitty and can be trusted with this power
-
(Personally, option 1 feels like a violation to me – content belongs to the author not to the host and moderators should no more be deleting other people’s posts than they should be editing them – while option 2 – especially combined with a limit and/or suspension or the threat thereof – is well within the rights of the host regardless of whether I agree with the actual moderation decision itself. Option 1 feels like censorship while option 2 – while it could easily constitute censorship – feels more like moderation to me.)
@aral Mastodon servers and the moderators are providers of a service. By being on that server you essentially agree to their terms. It is not a public broadcasting service (which never really exists) where you have the right to post anything. Nor does anyone's post automatically have a right to be seen by everyone.
Of course if you don't like the moderation then move or start your own instance.
-
Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.
Mastodon instance moderators should…
@aral I've been Mayor of https://dobbs.town since December 2018. The few times I've asked a SubGenius to re-consider a post, they have (or rage-quit, which solves the problem in a different way). I'm not sure that I've ever deleted a single post.
Related: Reports without a call to action may be considered for information purposes only. "Remove this post" is a call to action. "That SubGenius is a jerk" may be true but is not a call to action.
-
Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.
Mastodon instance moderators should…
@aral option two seems better to me as well, and allows the user to resign in protest. I'm not deleting it, I'm taking my backups and leaving.
On the other hand it also takes everything else down until the user responds.
-
Actually, here’s what I really think is lacking: a hide post moderation option in Mastodon.
Instead of deleting posts, moderators should be able to hide posts.
Posts that are hidden by moderators should keep their place in the timeline but state publicly that they were hidden by moderators.
(Servers other than the originating server must treat hidden posts as otherwise deleted and remove their local cache of the content. This is no different to the existing social contact for federated deletes.)
The server should also clearly communicate to the person in question (this can be automated) that their post has been hidden and that they can challenge the decision via regular channels by filing an appeal. (And, if they don’t like the moderation, they can move to a different server, etc., as per usual.)
That would feel much better to me than deleting a post outright and it can be combined with a moderation policy that promises not to delete or edit other people’s posts.
It would also allow for an appeal process and the possible reinstatement of a post should it be found that a moderation error has occurred.
#mastodon #moderation #fediverse #postDeletion #postHiding #authorship #censorship #ownership
-
Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.
Mastodon instance moderators should…
I have addressed this idea before in some detail although I don't remember where to find my screed. Here's the gist of my ancient long-winded musings.
0. The first line of moderation should not be the instance admin. Each user account should be able to moderate mentions of their ID, or replies to their comments.
1. The top poster of a comment thread should be able to moderate all reply comments under that thread.
2. Instance admins should only delete posts that are clearly designed to offend, hurt, or viciously attack, bully, harass, gaslight, annoy etc. but should never delete a post simply on ideological grounds or heated but honest disagreement or debate. Telling the difference is very simple in almost all cases: tone and mindless repetition being the biggest giveaways of the respondent's intent. If it becomes an unwanted or unproductive argument the top poster should be able to quash replies.
3. Users should be able to click a button to block and entire thread regardless of who posts to it.
These things are not a major problem for me since I'm on a simple instance and I can add users to my personal blacklist via CLI. It would be nice to see this kind of stuff as standard, basic button functions in activitypub and fediverse since not everyone wants to run an instance and use CLI scripts to moderate.
#mastodon #fediverse #moderation #postDeletion #activitypub #social
-
@eslam94 Hi Eslam, I am not asking whether or not moderation should exist.
I’m asking a very specific moderation policy question:
Should I be able to delete your posts or should I, for example, suspend your account and ask you to delete your own post if you want your account unsuspended?
There is a big difference between the two as to how we view the ownership of what is posted.
-
@aral I, a non-moderator, want the power to delete OTHER people's posts.
I am a good kitty and can be trusted with this power
-
Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.
Mastodon instance moderators should…
Folks, just wanted to say thank you for sharing your thoughts and the great feedback.
Also, please see my follow-ups as the character limit in poll options is very limiting.
-
@MontgomeryGator Wow, ok.
That’s just… terrible?
@aral On one hand, it protects the server from defederation and does the same functional job as deleting posts.
But to the user, it just looks like their post isn't popular. Nothing to get upset about, nothing to notice, nothing that will snowball into something worse.
It's the most gentle method, the lowest trauma.
That being said, this assumes the user only needs occasional moderation. If this is having to happen on a regular basis, then the admin shouldn't worry about removing posts as much as blocking their account from posting and telling the user that their account is exportable to another instance.
-
@aral On one hand, it protects the server from defederation and does the same functional job as deleting posts.
But to the user, it just looks like their post isn't popular. Nothing to get upset about, nothing to notice, nothing that will snowball into something worse.
It's the most gentle method, the lowest trauma.
That being said, this assumes the user only needs occasional moderation. If this is having to happen on a regular basis, then the admin shouldn't worry about removing posts as much as blocking their account from posting and telling the user that their account is exportable to another instance.
-
Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.
Mastodon instance moderators should…
@aral
If moderators are allowed to delete my posts it would be no different than the other SM platforms imposing their opinions of right/wrong on others and, like I did to them, I would say goodbye… -
Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.
Mastodon instance moderators should…
@aral I went for 1, but I think it should only ever be done after asking, after attempts to find another way around.
I don't think mods should delete other poeples posts just because they don't like them, only because they are offensive and have caused problems. It should be in extremis, but should be allowed.
-
Folks, just wanted to say thank you for sharing your thoughts and the great feedback.
Also, please see my follow-ups as the character limit in poll options is very limiting.
@aral curious if your poll was inspired by mine, where I took a single-person instance as the example of my #ThoughtProvoker toot..
https://social.coop/@smallcircles/116542809803489003
Like in the responses to your poll it triggered a whole bunch of interesting discussion. Unfortunately all happens on a communication medium where all insights are lost tomorrow (except for those who keep records and archives, I guess :)
I think really this is an "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" kind of thing, which is inherent to how we evolve the app-centric fediverse. We try to hammer all forms of communication into a Microblog design.
The app platform becomes a straightjacket way of doing things as intended by its developer owners, plus a bag of features to allow variations to that for instance owners, so they can deal with a certain set of edge cases.
I'd choose the option "it depends". It is solution-specific. But there needs to be crystal clear mutual expectations and proper management thereof.
-
-
@aral curious if your poll was inspired by mine, where I took a single-person instance as the example of my #ThoughtProvoker toot..
https://social.coop/@smallcircles/116542809803489003
Like in the responses to your poll it triggered a whole bunch of interesting discussion. Unfortunately all happens on a communication medium where all insights are lost tomorrow (except for those who keep records and archives, I guess :)
I think really this is an "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" kind of thing, which is inherent to how we evolve the app-centric fediverse. We try to hammer all forms of communication into a Microblog design.
The app platform becomes a straightjacket way of doing things as intended by its developer owners, plus a bag of features to allow variations to that for instance owners, so they can deal with a certain set of edge cases.
I'd choose the option "it depends". It is solution-specific. But there needs to be crystal clear mutual expectations and proper management thereof.
This whole idea of one-size-fits-all Moderation is super weird and unnatural. This is why I am really happy with my - still hobby track, since not earning money from it - exploration of Social experience design. And it constitutes a full-blown field of IT open for anyone to join the adventure of exploration. See how social and cold hard tech can come better together.
The way Moderation works now is artificial, band-aids to make a social network arrangement work somewhat better, while it is wholly unfit to carry all the social communication use cases it is applied for. The whole blocking and suspending thing, ram that button when dissatisfied, is a huge blunt hammer to social nuance and leads to often inhumane parasocial online culture. But it is a best-we-have solution to app-centric golden hammer development.
-
Right, fediverse, let me know what you think. Long-form comments also welcome.
Mastodon instance moderators should…
@aral Everybody should be able to delete replies to their posts. That's missing.
Mods are able to delete posts, but only on their instance. Meaning I can delete posts from climatejustice.social users for everyone. I can delete posts from elsewhere only for climatejustice.social users. That's good.
-
(Personally, option 1 feels like a violation to me – content belongs to the author not to the host and moderators should no more be deleting other people’s posts than they should be editing them – while option 2 – especially combined with a limit and/or suspension or the threat thereof – is well within the rights of the host regardless of whether I agree with the actual moderation decision itself. Option 1 feels like censorship while option 2 – while it could easily constitute censorship – feels more like moderation to me.)
@aral I hate this question, but in this instance I have to ask it myself: Where do you draw the line? Should mods not be allowed to delete phishing attempts, child pornography or nazi propaganda?
Of course those are extreme examples, but unless the hoster is a country or other kind of public hand entity, its not censorship.A mod shouldn't delete a post without an automatic mail being sent to the user (if its a human being) so the user has the content of the post in the mail and create an account elsewhere in the Fediverse and repost the content. That's far from censorship.
-
@chillybot @catsalad @aral 😳 I'm on my best behaviour, honest
Ciao! Sembra che tu sia interessato a questa conversazione, ma non hai ancora un account.
Stanco di dover scorrere gli stessi post a ogni visita? Quando registri un account, tornerai sempre esattamente dove eri rimasto e potrai scegliere di essere avvisato delle nuove risposte (tramite email o notifica push). Potrai anche salvare segnalibri e votare i post per mostrare il tuo apprezzamento agli altri membri della comunità.
Con il tuo contributo, questo post potrebbe essere ancora migliore 💗
Registrati Accedi