@julian @darius That's not the case!
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@julian @darius That's not the case!
@dmitri do you have the link for the meeting notes from last Friday? They'd be really helpful for this conversation.
EDIT: Found em in my history! https://hedgedoc.socialweb.coop/MoKSsjLPRwyDoDpKodH_mQ?edit
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@julian @darius That's not the case!
@dmitri do you have the link for the meeting notes from last Friday? They'd be really helpful for this conversation.
EDIT: Found em in my history! https://hedgedoc.socialweb.coop/MoKSsjLPRwyDoDpKodH_mQ?edit
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@evan @julian @darius @dmitri This is not only about fairness and openness, but even moreso about backwards compatibility and not changing the conformance classes in a way that will effectively 'fork' ActivityPub. Which is why I emailed you Jan 16, 2024 with concerns about the changes to normative references in your draft (no reply). A WG is ONLY needed to make non normative changes affecting conformance classes like you've authored into your draft.
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@evan @julian @darius @dmitri This is not only about fairness and openness, but even moreso about backwards compatibility and not changing the conformance classes in a way that will effectively 'fork' ActivityPub. Which is why I emailed you Jan 16, 2024 with concerns about the changes to normative references in your draft (no reply). A WG is ONLY needed to make non normative changes affecting conformance classes like you've authored into your draft.
@evan @julian @darius @dmitri IMHO what's best for fellow implementers and end-users, and most fair to those who took risk to implement the specification as agreed upon, is:
WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE[0]Linus' diction in that footnote is not great, but the principle is. It stands up for all implementers, not just rich/big ones. That's leadership in protocol development. Instead some of our leaders have not only been breaking userspace, but doing it for hire.
[0]: https://lore.kernel.org/all/CA+55aFy98A+LJK4+GWMcbzaa1zsPBRo76q+ioEjbx-uaMKH6Uw@mail.gmail.com/
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@darius @evan @julian And I'm extremely disappointed in w3c staff for completely disregarding and failing to enforce the charter, and moreso in leadership in our community for failing to even have a decision policy, agreeing to one, and then ignoring its requirements when inconvenient.
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@darius @evan @julian The CG decision policy, ie the group which ostensibly decided to approve a charter, *requires* the chair be elected. The CG Chair has not been elected EVER. And yet we are talking about what the CG has decided by consensus as determined by a completely different policy than the CG charter's decision policy requires. It's so clear an outcome was decided and all process that made that inconvenient is ignored, so I just can't let this misinfo spread that process requires WG.
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> The idea is to make class 3 and 4 changes as well.
It's a bad and unfair idea, is what i"m saying. Totally respect your position if you disagree.
> And I think the fact of the charter getting approved by the CG represents consensus?
Another half truth. CG consensus is entirely determined by the CG chair. There could be a vast majority against something, and if the CG Chair says there is consensus, there is. 'consensus' is very malleable due to this.
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@bengo @evan @julian The idea is not just to make class 1 and 2 changes per 6.2.6. The idea is to make class 3 and 4 changes as well. That was in scope of what we discussed during the many meetings about the WG charter.
And I think the fact of the charter getting approved by the CG represents consensus? I wouldn't have agreed to be chair of a group I felt was illegitimate. (I know the consensus does not reflect unanimous consensus. I'm okay with that.)
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@evan @julian @darius @dmitri IMHO what's best for fellow implementers and end-users, and most fair to those who took risk to implement the specification as agreed upon, is:
WE DO NOT BREAK USERSPACE[0]Linus' diction in that footnote is not great, but the principle is. It stands up for all implementers, not just rich/big ones. That's leadership in protocol development. Instead some of our leaders have not only been breaking userspace, but doing it for hire.
[0]: https://lore.kernel.org/all/CA+55aFy98A+LJK4+GWMcbzaa1zsPBRo76q+ioEjbx-uaMKH6Uw@mail.gmail.com/
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@evan @julian @darius @dmitri This is not only about fairness and openness, but even moreso about backwards compatibility and not changing the conformance classes in a way that will effectively 'fork' ActivityPub. Which is why I emailed you Jan 16, 2024 with concerns about the changes to normative references in your draft (no reply). A WG is ONLY needed to make non normative changes affecting conformance classes like you've authored into your draft.
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@darius @evan @julian I made the point in SWICG meeting years ago. W3C staff seemed to agree. https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/435#issuecomment-2065436813
There's no reason to keep repeating the half truth because it sounds true, but it's not, so it has clearly caused confusion. If that's the only reason we have a WG, we don't need one. There are other reasons.
There has not been CG consensus on a request to republish AP, and this is a way of venue shopping to a much smaller consensus group.
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Darius, that's only partially true. Per policy, CG cannot publish normative specifications. It's NOT true that "only a WG can". S6.2.6 explicitly describes how AP can be updated without a WG. It requires W3C staff help, and requires backwards compatibility. Clarifying and improving the spec has always been possible without a WG, but not if W3C staff obstructs it, and not when insiders are determined to publish breaking changes despite lack of consensus in CG.
