[@fabio@manganiello.eu](https://activitypub.space/user/fabio%40manganiello.eu)
General Discussion
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> from my understanding Person vs. Group actor are mutually exclusive, so I can't have both on the same handle right?
Correct, while you can have webfinger resolve both a group actor and person actor from a single handle, that gets messy quickly because how the receiving end handles this is not specified. Mastodon for example only takes the first entry, which crucially means if a community and user have the same handle, then one of the actors is inaccessible to Mastodon.
I don't think you need to introduce breaking changes (I hope!), the threadiverse component can be bolted on to existing functionality. In fact, I'd recommend maintaining the existing
Personactor so that microblog compatibility is not impacted. It's not an either-or approach, NodeBB does handle both types effectively.Here are some quick answers to the open questions:
Should the Person actor have its own inbox?
Yes, the Person actor and the Group actor are two separate identities (as far as anybody outside of your instance is concerned.)Outbox representation — Should the Group's outbox contain the Announce
activities, the inner Create activities, or both?This is optional (at least for NodeBB). If you investigate NodeBB's actors, all of their outboxes return an empty OrderedCollection because I simply haven't gotten around to it yet, and I don't know many implementations that read it. Federation works fine without it, but it would make sense to follow Lemmy or Piefed's lead here.
Backwards compatibility — Should Madblog support a "hybrid" mode that sends both Create (for Mastodon) and Announce (for threadiverse)?
Mastodon will correctly de-duplicate the object so sending both
Create(Note/Article)andAnnounce(Create(Note/Article))is fine. The former serves non-threadiverse followers, and the latter ensures threadiverse syncronization capability.NodeBB actually sends three :see_no_evil::
Create(Note/Article),Announce(Create(Note/Article)), andAnnounce(Note/Article). That last one is not needed.Separate keypair for the Person actor? If the Person actor eventually needs to sign requests (e.g. for inbox delivery), it would need its own keypair.
I believe so. It was trivial for me to just generate keypairs for everybody, so I don't know off-hand whether things break if your Person actor doesn't have one. It might not resolve in some implementations?
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> from my understanding Person vs. Group actor are mutually exclusive, so I can't have both on the same handle right?
Correct, while you can have webfinger resolve both a group actor and person actor from a single handle, that gets messy quickly because how the receiving end handles this is not specified. Mastodon for example only takes the first entry, which crucially means if a community and user have the same handle, then one of the actors is inaccessible to Mastodon.
I don't think you need to introduce breaking changes (I hope!), the threadiverse component can be bolted on to existing functionality. In fact, I'd recommend maintaining the existing
Personactor so that microblog compatibility is not impacted. It's not an either-or approach, NodeBB does handle both types effectively.Here are some quick answers to the open questions:
Should the Person actor have its own inbox?
Yes, the Person actor and the Group actor are two separate identities (as far as anybody outside of your instance is concerned.)Outbox representation — Should the Group's outbox contain the Announce
activities, the inner Create activities, or both?This is optional (at least for NodeBB). If you investigate NodeBB's actors, all of their outboxes return an empty OrderedCollection because I simply haven't gotten around to it yet, and I don't know many implementations that read it. Federation works fine without it, but it would make sense to follow Lemmy or Piefed's lead here.
Backwards compatibility — Should Madblog support a "hybrid" mode that sends both Create (for Mastodon) and Announce (for threadiverse)?
Mastodon will correctly de-duplicate the object so sending both
Create(Note/Article)andAnnounce(Create(Note/Article))is fine. The former serves non-threadiverse followers, and the latter ensures threadiverse syncronization capability.NodeBB actually sends three :see_no_evil::
Create(Note/Article),Announce(Create(Note/Article)), andAnnounce(Note/Article). That last one is not needed.Separate keypair for the Person actor? If the Person actor eventually needs to sign requests (e.g. for inbox delivery), it would need its own keypair.
I believe so. It was trivial for me to just generate keypairs for everybody, so I don't know off-hand whether things break if your Person actor doesn't have one. It might not resolve in some implementations?
If you investigate NodeBB's actors, all of their outboxes return an empty OrderedCollection because I simply haven't gotten around to it yet, and I don't know many implementations that read it.
I read from outboxes all the time. But I can't do that with NodeBB 😢
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If you investigate NodeBB's actors, all of their outboxes return an empty OrderedCollection because I simply haven't gotten around to it yet, and I don't know many implementations that read it.
I read from outboxes all the time. But I can't do that with NodeBB 😢
@silverpill@mitra.social I recall Mitra may be one of a select few 😝
Do you use it to backfill a profile? How often do you query the outbox?
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@silverpill@mitra.social I recall Mitra may be one of a select few 😝
Do you use it to backfill a profile? How often do you query the outbox?
@julian Yes, to backfill a profile. It is a manual action.
I don't know who else does that, but @jonny is working on a adding automatic profile backfill to Mastodon: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/34597
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@julian Yes, to backfill a profile. It is a manual action.
I don't know who else does that, but @jonny is working on a adding automatic profile backfill to Mastodon: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/34597
@silverpill @julian@activitypub.space I believe @hollo does it as well.
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@julian Yes, to backfill a profile. It is a manual action.
I don't know who else does that, but @jonny is working on a adding automatic profile backfill to Mastodon: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/34597
@silverpill @julian @general Collections are one of the best parts of activitypub/streams and i have no idea why nobody uses them or works on them. like if we embraced the underlying graph structure of the data and used the canonicalization algos that have been developed in the meantime we get all the good parts of atproto (mostly efficient updating the pds system) basically for free
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@silverpill @julian @general Collections are one of the best parts of activitypub/streams and i have no idea why nobody uses them or works on them. like if we embraced the underlying graph structure of the data and used the canonicalization algos that have been developed in the meantime we get all the good parts of atproto (mostly efficient updating the pds system) basically for free
@silverpill @julian @general account backfilling is issue number THIRTY FOUR in mastodon and has >700 thumbs, >200 comments hemming and hawing about how possible it would be for TEN YEARS.
the solution is just "enumerate the outbox" and it's 200 lines.
like we already have a mechanism for reply controls: the reply collection.
for fine-grained post visibility: access control on the outbox collection.
broadcasting feeds and posts between instances: collections
migrations: collections
store and forward, offline-focused AP: collectionsand so on.
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@julian @silverpill ActivityPub API clients dont need their server to backfill thanks to proxyURL, but Actors will look like they haven’t posted 😢
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@julian @silverpill ActivityPub API clients dont need their server to backfill thanks to proxyURL, but Actors will look like they haven’t posted 😢
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@silverpill @julian @general account backfilling is issue number THIRTY FOUR in mastodon and has >700 thumbs, >200 comments hemming and hawing about how possible it would be for TEN YEARS.
the solution is just "enumerate the outbox" and it's 200 lines.
like we already have a mechanism for reply controls: the reply collection.
for fine-grained post visibility: access control on the outbox collection.
broadcasting feeds and posts between instances: collections
migrations: collections
store and forward, offline-focused AP: collectionsand so on.
-
@silverpill @julian @general Collections are one of the best parts of activitypub/streams and i have no idea why nobody uses them or works on them. like if we embraced the underlying graph structure of the data and used the canonicalization algos that have been developed in the meantime we get all the good parts of atproto (mostly efficient updating the pds system) basically for free
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@fabio@manganiello.eu @fabio@manganiello.blog @blog omg thank you for the python lib. i was getting ready to write one but extremely good to see i can draw from (credit/depend on/etc.) prior art. adding to the inspo docs!!!
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@silverpill @julian@activitypub.space I believe @hollo does it as well.
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@julian Yes, to backfill a profile. It is a manual action.
I don't know who else does that, but @jonny is working on a adding automatic profile backfill to Mastodon: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/pull/34597
-
@silverpill@mitra.social I recall Mitra may be one of a select few 😝
Do you use it to backfill a profile? How often do you query the outbox?
-
If you investigate NodeBB's actors, all of their outboxes return an empty OrderedCollection because I simply haven't gotten around to it yet, and I don't know many implementations that read it.
I read from outboxes all the time. But I can't do that with NodeBB 😢
