Oh fuck: that's ME determined never to fly on a Boeing 787!

[cstross@wandering.shop]

@FediThing Who the hell knows? The whistleblower report dropped in the past day.

"Blame the pilots" has always been a Thing in aviation disasters. It doesn't always stick.

As for India, Air India apparently owns a bunch of early 787s with sketchy fault histories: as 787s cost ~$400M each, they could be on the hook for billions if they need to replace them prematurely.

[moehrenfeld@social.karotte.org]

@cstross Im a bit hesitant about avherald, he did peddle some weird conspiracy theory promoting a documentation he made around the crash of Germanwings 9525… It seems there is no hard evidence right now. Wouldn’t rule it out either, it’s still Boing / Air India…

[mjg59@nondeterministic.computer]

@cstross My understanding (which may be incorrect, I am not a pilot or accident investigator) is that the engine cutoff switches are recorded both in terms of their effect (the engines are commanded off) and their position, and that in this case both switches reported both conditions (although with a small gap in time between each switch). It's not literally impossible that electrical issues would trigger that, but it's absolutely not the most obvious explanation.

[verain@c.im]

@cstross Boeing in general aren't having a nice time. I think I'll avoid them from now on.

[canleaf@mastodon.social]

@cstross I had three 787s at UAL on my past itineraries and it was smooths… No longer after this crash.

[nota@chaos.social]

@cstross This does not pass the sniff test
- The original report seems sensationally written to damage boeing in a way that just reads like a short seller report
- The NTSB is much more independent than the FAA
- If air india had reason to believe their planes were unsafe, they'd be pushing boeing for a solution
- The actual issues described do not sound that concerning
- The flight recorder records the physical movement of the switches. It is unlikely to have been caused by what is described

[raymaccarthy@mastodon.ie]

@cstross
At least ferries have enough lifeboats now?

Then there is the ghastly airport security and seats less comfortable than a Toyota Yaris, with less space. At least the smoking is gone!

[nota@chaos.social]

@cstross All of the the "explosive" parts of the report people are quoting are just flavour text and conjecture. The actual information is just... nothing. Yeah they sometimes have electrical issues. They all do. Yeah they report back thousands more parameters to the company than they display to pilots. They all do. It's for predictive maintainance. Yeah planes routinely take off with various systems mildly broken. It's called the Minimum Equipment List. None of it is even relevant to AI171.

[oschonrock@mastodon.social]

@moehrenfeld @cstross

Yes.... Not convinced this is fully reliable

[n_dimension@infosec.exchange]

@cstross

Some #Australian #Airlines operate #embraere190aircraft

These days I pick the flight time based on whether it's an Ebraere or a #boeing

This is where you are right now #america...
The dumpster burning bright atop the hill...

Second to #brazil #aviation

[bonoky@fosstodon.org]

@cstross

I also vowed never to use Boeing 787, but the airline changed the aircraft after I had booked the flight - I’m quite nervous 😮

[hanke@mastodon.nu]

@cstross

After all shit happening with Boeing I wonder if there is a simple way to find flights that do not use these planes.

If anyone got any suggestions, I am all ear!

[edavies@functional.cafe]

@mjg59 @cstross I agree - if the preliminary report is not actively misleading and if there weren't some really bizarre and unlikely electrical faults then the fuel cut-off switches on the flight deck moved from the run to the cut off position very soon after the aircraft left the ground (and then moved back to run some 10 seconds later, soon enough for the engines to relight but not soon enough to prevent it smiting the ground).

Some specific and seemingly well-informed replies to my semi-informed questions in the comments to this blog post: https://fearoflanding.com/accidents/accident-reports/air-india-171-crash-triggered-by-fuel-cutoff/

Why the switches moved is a separate issue but any theory as to why that aircraft crashed which doesn't start from the assumption that they did move falls into the general class of extraordinary claims.

[fluffgar@mastodon.scot]

@cstross Probably will be a Mentour Pilot or Mentour Now episode worth listening to about this soon then.

[kentenmakto@mastodon.ie]

@cstross If it's a Boeing, I ain't goeing.

[denisbloodnok@mendeddrum.org]

@cstross I wonder if we can persuade some state to bribe Trump with a 787? He can have a door seat. For legroom, ofc.

[patterfloof@meow.social]

@denisbloodnok @cstross 787 is bigger number, must be better

[nota@chaos.social]

@cstross If you don't want to believe some random internet commenter, consider that this report hasn't been covered or so much as mentioned by any of the major reliable news sources who specialize in aviation. Nothing on The Air Current (who broke the fuel cutoff switch story days before official announcement), Leeham News, Seattle Times. All of those would report on things like this within hours if there was something to them.

[pdcawley@mendeddrum.org]

@cstross
Boeing executives: Do we have any reputation left to piss away?
Aviation authorities: Why?
BE: Oh… nothing… we were just wondering. That's all.

[graydon@canada.masto.host]

@cstross People need a certain amount of reliably-present cognitive armamentarium to keep planes in the air safely, and it's not clear this is still generally available what with repeated SARS infections. (It's also clear in many domains that people are most concerned with being _caught_ not thinking effectively, rather than about broader consequences.)

So Boeing, who was already ripping up any and all do-the-right-thing process, is the canary, not necessarily the uniquely bad example.