If you use the word “clanker” to talk about generative AI, I am immediately suspicious of you.
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I’ve now blocked people who have called me “clanker” in response to this thread, which really honestly proves my point. The type of person that wants this kind of language to exist and wants to use it is not a good person
@danirabbit yeah. the Star Wars connection made me find it kind of funny early on, where the term had weird WWI inter-european slur vibes (like kraut, limey, whatever) which are a bit uncomfortable but less problematic from a power perspective (but still othering and dehumanizing so meh).
but, like, we have "slop". it's simple, it doesn't anthropromorphize the statistical extrapolation machines, and it doesn't remind people of bigotry.
makes me wonder if people still using "clanker" are just more 4chan types trying to poison the waters on purpose.
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If you use the word “clanker” to talk about generative AI, I am immediately suspicious of you. This reads to me as, guy that is so racist that he can only experience the world through the lens of bigotry. It doesn’t seem like you actually have any legitimate objections to AI, you’re just super excited you found a group (real or imagined) that it’s socially acceptable for you to be racist towards. You would say the n word if you thought it was okay. That’s what I’m hearing from you
@danirabbit yeah I really dislike genAI but inventing a pseudo-slur for it is really odd at best.
Tbh I wouldn’t have been particularly strongly against it either, but people doubling down on being allowed to use it / why it’s actually okay feels weird. Like why is it so important to defend this made-up word?
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@danirabbit yeah. the Star Wars connection made me find it kind of funny early on, where the term had weird WWI inter-european slur vibes (like kraut, limey, whatever) which are a bit uncomfortable but less problematic from a power perspective (but still othering and dehumanizing so meh).
but, like, we have "slop". it's simple, it doesn't anthropromorphize the statistical extrapolation machines, and it doesn't remind people of bigotry.
makes me wonder if people still using "clanker" are just more 4chan types trying to poison the waters on purpose.
@danirabbit my kids have a Clone Trooper toy helmet/mask that has a button to activate voice lines like, "Dang! Those Clankers have tough armor!" or "Klankers! Get 'em!"
and it's, well. weird. still don't really know how I should feel about letting them use the audio.
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@danirabbit my kids have a Clone Trooper toy helmet/mask that has a button to activate voice lines like, "Dang! Those Clankers have tough armor!" or "Klankers! Get 'em!"
and it's, well. weird. still don't really know how I should feel about letting them use the audio.
@joshg uh yeah what the fuck
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@joshg uh yeah what the fuck
@danirabbit It's kind of double-weird because Star Wars has *always* had a weird "droids aren't people, but they are, but they're acceptable targets of slavery/racism" since the very start. and it's like, uh, are you making a point with this? are you being nuanced? or are you just being weird and allowing bigotry?
the prequels had Qui-Gon being dismissive of "less intelligent" Gungans. but then they defeat the evil tyrants. the Ewoks defeat the Empire. but also they're infantilized Indigenous people.
at some point it's just easier to say "dear god this franchise is a dumpster fire, I'm only here for the lightsabers and goofy space magic"
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@danirabbit It's kind of double-weird because Star Wars has *always* had a weird "droids aren't people, but they are, but they're acceptable targets of slavery/racism" since the very start. and it's like, uh, are you making a point with this? are you being nuanced? or are you just being weird and allowing bigotry?
the prequels had Qui-Gon being dismissive of "less intelligent" Gungans. but then they defeat the evil tyrants. the Ewoks defeat the Empire. but also they're infantilized Indigenous people.
at some point it's just easier to say "dear god this franchise is a dumpster fire, I'm only here for the lightsabers and goofy space magic"
@danirabbit the real moral of the story is the only good Star Wars was Ep 8 where all the toxic fandom got pissy about a woman of color being awesome, and the angry white dude got totally owned and lost the girl
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If your response is, “LLMs aren’t people”. Yeah no shit. So why are YOU anthropomorphizing them for the specific purpose of emulating bigotry? This isn’t about the fucking LLMs. This is about your weird behavior. This is about you going out of your way to behave in a bigoted way towards a non-existent group just that you can do a bigotry and how fucking weird and gross you are for doing that
word to that, mah clankkuh -
@danirabbit the real moral of the story is the only good Star Wars was Ep 8 where all the toxic fandom got pissy about a woman of color being awesome, and the angry white dude got totally owned and lost the girl
@danirabbit (and the wise old white dude *apologized for fucking up earlier* instead of being a goddamn boomer and doubling down)
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I’ve now blocked people who have called me “clanker” in response to this thread, which really honestly proves my point. The type of person that wants this kind of language to exist and wants to use it is not a good person
@danirabbit Thank you for writing this down. It's been bothering me and I've been struggling to clarify why.
Partly because whenever I see it I think "Why are you being obnoxious to the robots?" and then get short-circuited into STOP USING HARDWARE TERMS FOR SOFTWARE THINGS!!
And partly because of the disconnect between
"this entity deserves a slur"
and
"this entity is incapable of feeling the feelings that slurs are designed to elicit".New understanding:
using it means either "you're trolling" or "you are attempting to signal in-group/out-group human relationships via a slur on a type of software model" or "you think a software model of human language is capable of being offended and want to offend one". None of those indicate someone willing to have an honest conversation.
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If you use the word “clanker” to talk about generative AI, I am immediately suspicious of you. This reads to me as, guy that is so racist that he can only experience the world through the lens of bigotry. It doesn’t seem like you actually have any legitimate objections to AI, you’re just super excited you found a group (real or imagined) that it’s socially acceptable for you to be racist towards. You would say the n word if you thought it was okay. That’s what I’m hearing from you
@danirabbit I read this post maybe an hour and a half ago and scrolled past it and thought, "Well that's silly".
But something in the back of my mind made me scroll back and bookmark it.
And then I started typing a response, mostly about why I found this silly.
But then I thought maybe I don't understand, and started reading the comments.
And then typed part of a new comment about why I thought this was silly.
But then I deleted that and walked away from my computer and thought about this and set this next to some other ideas I've held onto for years and felt those kind of come apart, and then came back to my computer and journaled about a thing that seems kind of unrelated, but your post here brought into clarity.
And now I'm back here writing this because at first I was with the comments going, "Is this satire?" and then "Oh it's not...but this is kind of silly." and now I'm at, "Yeah - this is a really excellent point and really important and I'm going to need to sit with this for a bit because this is a noble perspective about language & bigotry & intentions that I need to internalize."
Thanks for this. This is important in a way that I can't really articulate concisely yet -- but this incredibly insightful and important. Thank you for this.
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If you use the word “clanker” to talk about generative AI, I am immediately suspicious of you. This reads to me as, guy that is so racist that he can only experience the world through the lens of bigotry. It doesn’t seem like you actually have any legitimate objections to AI, you’re just super excited you found a group (real or imagined) that it’s socially acceptable for you to be racist towards. You would say the n word if you thought it was okay. That’s what I’m hearing from you
@danirabbit
I think we should use "clanker" for users of these fascist-by-design slopshit generators out of ignorance or despite better judgement, not the models themselves, if we use it at alland I agree that we probably shouldn't use it at all
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If you use the word “clanker” to talk about generative AI, I am immediately suspicious of you. This reads to me as, guy that is so racist that he can only experience the world through the lens of bigotry. It doesn’t seem like you actually have any legitimate objections to AI, you’re just super excited you found a group (real or imagined) that it’s socially acceptable for you to be racist towards. You would say the n word if you thought it was okay. That’s what I’m hearing from you
@danirabbit The people who use that word are reeeeeeeeeeeal excited to do 1950's cosplay. It makes me viscerally uncomfortable
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@SymTrkl@anarres.family if you think everyone is consciously recognizing that there's a new slur that's acceptable to say and that's the reason people are using it, that is both extremely cynical and frankly, just a little delusional. absolutely raise your eyebrow at it, question it, but don't attribute to malice what could be ignorance.
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If you use the word “clanker” to talk about generative AI, I am immediately suspicious of you. This reads to me as, guy that is so racist that he can only experience the world through the lens of bigotry. It doesn’t seem like you actually have any legitimate objections to AI, you’re just super excited you found a group (real or imagined) that it’s socially acceptable for you to be racist towards. You would say the n word if you thought it was okay. That’s what I’m hearing from you
@danirabbit@mastodon.online i see the internet is acting very mature and considering every nuance in this thread /s
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I’ve now blocked people who have called me “clanker” in response to this thread, which really honestly proves my point. The type of person that wants this kind of language to exist and wants to use it is not a good person
“I’m not racist to real life people. I just fantasize about the idea of racism and want to reenact it”
Hmmmmmmmmmm
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“I’m not racist to real life people. I just fantasize about the idea of racism and want to reenact it”
Hmmmmmmmmmm
@danirabbit everything is always also a self revelation
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“I’m not racist to real life people. I just fantasize about the idea of racism and want to reenact it”
Hmmmmmmmmmm
@danirabbit 'im not racist towards real people' -> proceeds to use their made up slur towards, a real person
(also ive already seen this starting to be used against people who have prosthetic limbs, so yay ableism)
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“I’m not racist to real life people. I just fantasize about the idea of racism and want to reenact it”
Hmmmmmmmmmm
@danirabbit my partner brought this up to me a little while ago and i had a similar reaction.
it smacked a little bit of like, "its okay to slur gay republicans" energy but in a super extra uncomfortable and weird kinda way
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@danirabbit slop generators are not a “group”
@zaire @danirabbit i mean, i don't see them saying that they are ?
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@ada_magicat @danirabbit they are treated, by those who use these terms *as if* they are people as if they are some group .. but then when called out on it, they say 'they are not people so its fine'
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