Google has news on what you will need to do for still being able to sideload apps:

[epic_null@infosec.exchange]

@nazokiyoubinbou @FifiSch @grote

you can just flash again

Look that is comforting to someone who knows they can flash their phone. For someone who is doing it for the first time with exactly one device, that's essentially saying "If you find you do not have what it takes to do this, you can just do the thing you found you could not do to fix the mess you made!"

That is NOT going to be comforting to those who need that comfort.

[argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org]

@nazokiyoubinbou

I dislike the new ARM Macs for the same reason, by the way: to install an OS from scratch, you need to feed it one over USB from *another* ARM Mac, which must be running macOS if I'm not mistaken.

If I can't recover from a bricked OS with nothing but a storage device containing an OS installer, then it's not a real computer and it doesn't deserve my hard-earned money.

@FifiSch @grote

[nazokiyoubinbou@urusai.social]

@Razemix @FifiSch @grote

The user needs to know what an OS even is and that they're using one.

No... Not really. "Install LineageOS" or whatever is all they need to know.

The user needs to realize that they can use a different OS.

That's the second part of the first problem repeated. Again when people say "just install LineageOS" they know they need to install a different thing.

Third problem

Oh we do agree on parts of that and that is a huge part of what I'm saying is NOT ok in this ecosystem. It's not to the extent that you say of course, but it still applies a lot.

I get it. You're terrified of something different and really really don't even want it to be a thing. But that doesn't mean it's ok to be 100% behind letting Google and Apple do this.

[calcprogrammer1@mastodon.social]

@itsFriday @grote How so? It's the one that's getting in your way the most. Want to use this app today? Screw you. Why do we cater to idiots getting scammed more than letting people own the devices we bought with our own money?

[utf_7@mastodon.social]

@kevinrns @grote to what?

[nazokiyoubinbou@urusai.social]

@tedmielczarek @FifiSch @grote That's a strong declaration without a whole lot of backing...

We'll just have to agree to disagree there.

I'm not saying that they're likely to do it. As I said, people have been systematically convinced not to even look into it. But I don't agree with a blanket statement that no one will ever do it either. Especially if they get pushed hard enough.

[nazokiyoubinbou@urusai.social]

@Epic_Null @FifiSch @grote What?

I'm saying if you for some reason yanked out the cable or something and broke the initial flash you can press up and press enter then this time not yank out the cable.

[nazokiyoubinbou@urusai.social]

@argv_minus_one @FifiSch @grote

to install an OS from scratch, you need to feed it one over USB from another ARM Mac, which must be running macOS if I'm not mistaken.

That's... insane...

It kind of makes it pretty clear what Apple is doing there. You must buy at least one other of their devices even to do anything else with your own...

In regards to flashing Android devices, any PC will do and there are ways to do it from non-PC things. I wouldn't suggest it for the average user, but I've even used a USB host connection to another phone with termux to run adb commands, lol. (The point is we have the option of using anything that can run the software. They definitely shouldn't try that one at home...)

[serk@neopaquita.es]

@grote
Or switch to a degoogle os.

[aethralux@mastodon.social]

@grote
One will also need to:
*Summon Satan using only Holy Water
*Sell your first born child

"Can someone continue the list? These peasants need to kneel before the Corporation"

[jandi@mastodon.social]

@govinda_hari @faduda @grote As others have noted, it's PIN *or* biometrics (not to save Goog's face, they're being awful here, but biometrics are not required at this point, yet!)

[li@tech.lgbt]

@CalcProgrammer1 @itsFriday @grote its wrong to assume this is about stopping scams or will do anything to stop scammers-

scammers will.. simply .. just ask you to enter your details into a web application, instead of a 'native' app, and nothing changes

the purpose is control, the purpose is survailence, the purpose is to deny certain people the 'privledge' of making android apps, the purpose is to send armed forces to your house to socially/actually murder you if you make an app they dont approve of

the purpose is not to 'stop scammers' :)

[itsfriday@toot.community]

@CalcProgrammer1 @grote For the scamer scenario, 1 day of patience I see as a workimg precaution. But why do I need to go through hidden steps to get there? Why is there not a question at the very first startup "Would you like to add F-Droid, Aurora, ... and/or the option to install any apk on your phone? Tick the ones you like and it is installed automatically."

[lumi@snug.moe]

@ryanprior sure

[oatrapado@mastodon.social]

@Frenezul0_o @grote those chinese/european phones are just obsolete and overprized, pinephone another archeological piece at a high price.

[agowa338@chaos.social]

@Li @grote

You're absolutely right. However I think you misinterpreted my initial post. That was to be seen more of the lines of "if life gives you lemons make lemonade" (and kinda ironically).

I just wanted to make readers think about all of this and the implications :)

[tedmielczarek@mastodon.social]

@grote @TimWardCam Google has a whole "Managed Google Play" as part of Enterprise Android support: https://support.google.com/work/android/answer/9495634?hl=en
I don't think companies doing such things will be fussed by this at all. A company using Android devices but not using enterprise management would already be in a pretty self-inflicted state of badness.
Edit: https://developer.android.com/developer-verification/guides/faq explicitly says this doesn't affect enterprise apps.

[itsfriday@toot.community]

@Li @CalcProgrammer1 @grote Yes, that's why I think the 24h are the only reasonable steps.

[li@tech.lgbt]

@agowa338 @grote bleh ive been seeing techbros unironically supporting this because "muh scammers" .. as if they wont just switch to using a fucking web app overnight

[hidoni@meow.social]

@grote the point about requiring biometrics is incorrect. The blog post states that you need to confirm with "biometric authentication [...] or device PIN."