It turns out that not only is @protonprivacy vibe-coding their software now, they've also just launched an AI chatbot that rips apart their E2EE security guarantees and they've made plans to move out of Switzerland to another unspecified EU country.

[ulveon@derg.social]

@serebit@floss.social @protonprivacy@mastodon.social Proton Mail is also terrible for other reasons.

They hire offshore developers for as cheap as possible, and exploit international wage differences while selling their services at a premium making you think it's all made in Switzerland.

The only thing made in Switzerland that Proton makes is probably the CEO's mansion.

But I guess most people wouldn't ever know this. I know because I applied to Proton once and they changed me from Switzerland to North Macedonia for a fraction of the Swiss salary.

[serebit@floss.social]

@ulveon @protonprivacy I didn't know about that. Very disappointing, but unfortunately not surprising...

[phillip@social.lol]

@me @serebit @protonprivacy That KPI theory is sounding plausible and dangerously close to Google’s performance metric method - and we all know how that went

[kmachel@muenchen.social]

@serebit @protonprivacy

A FFS I was about to switch all my communication to @protonprivacy. Considering this new aspect I won't.

Bad enough to get AI shoved in the face everywhere but if it kind of removes the whole USP of a product well then I'm not interested any longer.

As a product manager I can only say, good job wrecking your own product

As a possible customer/consumer I am simply deeply disappointed.

[jospoortvliet@fosstodon.org]

@troed @serebit @protonprivacy yes, and Germany, which I thought they were moving to, has had better privacy regulations than Switzerland for a loooong time…

[jospoortvliet@fosstodon.org]

@serebit @ulveon @protonprivacy I dont think it is true. They have a bunch of offices including Spain etc and sure salaries will differ but why is that an issue, being willing to hire outside of Switzerland?!?

[jospoortvliet@fosstodon.org]

@serebit @protonprivacy
> If this prompt is the real deal, then your files and everything else are just dumped into the model’s context. That means your request and your previously end-to-end-encrypted files will now exist unencrypted at rest on Proton’s servers.

What is the logic going from prompt to “they store data”? They have been 100% transparent - the llm processes data when you do a request, and doesn’t store data….

This article is honestly bull.

[jospoortvliet@fosstodon.org]

@phillip @me @serebit @protonprivacy it’s sounding nonsense. Proton isn’t a for profit, it’s owned by a foundation. That, to have maximum impact to reach their goal of providing privacy, they measure and guide employees with kpis seems wise, what else, letting the vibes dictate if ppl do good work?

[jospoortvliet@fosstodon.org]

@Kmachel @serebit @protonprivacy well you do r have to use it, it is optional. I appreciate they try new things - their solution is still more privacy sensible than any other hosted ai solution as it has no user data at rest.

Honestly it’s smart to do this - got them attention and means they can deliver something some customers want. Would be quite a sign of incompetence if they hadn’t done it I would say…

[hierarchy@mastodon.social]

@jospoortvliet @serebit @ulveon @protonprivacy It seems like these arguments that they posted has more sentiment in them than facts. So, my questions to ulveon are that have they disclosed this information anywhere? If they have then what are their policies when hiring offshore workers.

Like what was said already, does it matter or are u coming out of racist? It is common practice to hire offshore workers now. The apps u use daily has 99% chance there was some offshores creating that app

[ulveon@derg.social]

@Hierarchy@mastodon.social @jospoortvliet@fosstodon.org @serebit@floss.social @protonprivacy@mastodon.social

are u coming out of racist

Lol. I will not be entertaining loaded questions from strangers.

You have a good day, though.

[hierarchy@mastodon.social]

@ulveon @serebit @protonprivacy @jospoortvliet I dont find it entertaining when someone is just throwing things without evidence. So, I assume your arguments are based the sentiment than on the facts.

So, even if they would use offshore workers then whats the problem here? They still have to write NDAs, follow compliances, policies and the law. They are workers like any other people

[jospoortvliet@fosstodon.org]

@Hierarchy @ulveon @serebit @protonprivacy well in all fairness to ulveon, if you give them the benefit of the doubt - there are issues with outsourcing & offshoring that go beyond racism… companies do try to cut cost in unethical and exploitative ways. Finding talent wherever it is is great. Firing your European developers because a coding sweatshop in a poorer country can do it cheaper - not cool. But this doesn’t seem what proton does.

[jospoortvliet@fosstodon.org]

@phillip @me @serebit @protonprivacy not saying there isn’t plenty management bullshit that is just overhead or attempts to push ppl to lower quality and squeeze more out of them, no doubt. But I have no indications Proton has this issue. Maybe I’m wrong of course, I’m just a customer and have a few minor relations there.