The first paragraphs of this article are big news (I think??
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I •think• the most important people for MN residents to call right now are MN Gov Walz and MN AG Ellison. Those numbers again:
Gov: (651) 201-3400
AG: (651) 296-3353My points when I call:
- We don’t trust Trump’s FBI
- We want an independent MN-based investigation of the killing of Good
- Thank you for steps you’re already taking in this direction
- Do more, try harder
- Do so in outright defiance of the FBI if necessary(To be clear, this is all just from Paul; if I get better guidance from more informed folks, I will share/update.)
@inthehands we also should make sure Governor Walz knows that if he activates the national guard, they should act to contain the illegal acts of ICE, not suppress protest.
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@inthehands we also should make sure Governor Walz knows that if he activates the national guard, they should act to contain the illegal acts of ICE, not suppress protest.
Agreed. I have been pondering and looking for guidance on exactly what our ask should be on this point.
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@AlexanderVI @carsten You are several steps out of sync with the facts and current events. Briefly:
- Despite the name, NG are under the command of each state; this is the •Minnesota• National Guard we’re talking about here
- US law allows a state’s NG to be “federalized” under limited circumstances, in which case control transfers to the US Gov
- Trump tried to federalize the NG in places like LA, under slim pretense. Multiple courts have now smacked this down so hard the Trump regime has essentially given up
- MN Gov Walz ordered the MN NG to prepare for mobilization earlier this week. Mobilization now would be under his control.
- NG members are (1) more local that ICE (and other military too), and (2) better trained than police
- (Paul’s opinion now) Trump can re-attempt his failed NG federalization here at any time, with or without deployment. Walz already mobilizing them himself is if anything a •defense• against this: if they’re already taking orders from MN, it’s harder for feds to make a case (to courts or to troops) they are helping by countermanding him
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Re “apply the pressure anyway:” that’s advice I got from…Keith Ellison.
I was part of a citizen group pressuring him to vote for the ACA when he was in the House. He met with us, and gave us an impassioned speech about universal care and how the ACA was a good first step but insufficient, relating it to the less-remembered civil rights acts of the 1950s that laid the groundwork for the big one in 1964.
Somebody from the group finally asked him, “Why are we meeting with you? You’re already convinced!”
He replied (paraphrasing here): “I •need• your pressure. I need it even if I already agree. If you’re pressuring me, then I can get on the floor of the House and say ‘My constituents are beating down the doors of my office! This has tremendous support!’ I can tell my colleagues in private about how agitated voters are. If you apply pressure, I can pass that pressure forward. I need you to do it! •That• is why you’re meeting with me.”
And now Keith Ellison is MN Attorney General. He’s already started doing the right thing. Follow his advice, and apply that pressure!
@inthehands Seems like a reference to the FDR "Make me do it" anecdote that floats around, in the same vein. (I think Obama referenced it too, at one point - it certainly came into wider public consciousness under obama at least - though the original story is, afaik a myth).
Which... often doesn't work out quite like it's framed. It's all well and good when the politician agrees, but, more often than not they get frustrated by it - eg. FDR, being usually pissed off at unions forcing his hand. -
@AlexanderVI @carsten You are several steps out of sync with the facts and current events. Briefly:
- Despite the name, NG are under the command of each state; this is the •Minnesota• National Guard we’re talking about here
- US law allows a state’s NG to be “federalized” under limited circumstances, in which case control transfers to the US Gov
- Trump tried to federalize the NG in places like LA, under slim pretense. Multiple courts have now smacked this down so hard the Trump regime has essentially given up
- MN Gov Walz ordered the MN NG to prepare for mobilization earlier this week. Mobilization now would be under his control.
- NG members are (1) more local that ICE (and other military too), and (2) better trained than police
- (Paul’s opinion now) Trump can re-attempt his failed NG federalization here at any time, with or without deployment. Walz already mobilizing them himself is if anything a •defense• against this: if they’re already taking orders from MN, it’s harder for feds to make a case (to courts or to troops) they are helping by countermanding him
@AlexanderVI @carsten
More on the history and constitutional basis for federalization of the National Guard here (fascinating!): -
@inthehands Seems like a reference to the FDR "Make me do it" anecdote that floats around, in the same vein. (I think Obama referenced it too, at one point - it certainly came into wider public consciousness under obama at least - though the original story is, afaik a myth).
Which... often doesn't work out quite like it's framed. It's all well and good when the politician agrees, but, more often than not they get frustrated by it - eg. FDR, being usually pissed off at unions forcing his hand.@miss_rodent
I mean, yeah, there are always power struggles between politicians and their supporters. The basic moral here is just “don’t be silent because [you think] they already agree,” and I do think that’s sound advice. -
@miss_rodent
I mean, yeah, there are always power struggles between politicians and their supporters. The basic moral here is just “don’t be silent because [you think] they already agree,” and I do think that’s sound advice.@inthehands Yeah, public pressure is important if you want a representative democracy to actually function. Both from the 'shows public support' side, but also (and often more importantly) shows the risk of strikes, protests, riots, civil unrest, etc. disruptin the economy, and the risk of being voted out (or dragged out of their home at night as a traitor) if it's ignored.
So... functions as both encouragement if they agree, and implicit threat otherwise. -
@inthehands Yeah, public pressure is important if you want a representative democracy to actually function. Both from the 'shows public support' side, but also (and often more importantly) shows the risk of strikes, protests, riots, civil unrest, etc. disruptin the economy, and the risk of being voted out (or dragged out of their home at night as a traitor) if it's ignored.
So... functions as both encouragement if they agree, and implicit threat otherwise.@miss_rodent
Exactly. And you don’t always have to know exactly which of those two things it really is in the moment if you’re aiming punches wisely and focusing clearly on goals. Threat or encouragement? Either way, we call, we march, we build our capacity for action. -
@miss_rodent
Exactly. And you don’t always have to know exactly which of those two things it really is in the moment if you’re aiming punches wisely and focusing clearly on goals. Threat or encouragement? Either way, we call, we march, we build our capacity for action.@inthehands Yeah, and tbh often it can just be both. If they act in-line with the people's interest, it's encouragement. If they don't, it's foreshadowing what the protesters will angry at them over.
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I •think• the most important people for MN residents to call right now are MN Gov Walz and MN AG Ellison. Those numbers again:
Gov: (651) 201-3400
AG: (651) 296-3353My points when I call:
- We don’t trust Trump’s FBI
- We want an independent MN-based investigation of the killing of Good
- Thank you for steps you’re already taking in this direction
- Do more, try harder
- Do so in outright defiance of the FBI if necessary(To be clear, this is all just from Paul; if I get better guidance from more informed folks, I will share/update.)
@inthehands it would be great if no one from ICE could enter MN without being arrested as a co-conspirator
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I •think• the most important people for MN residents to call right now are MN Gov Walz and MN AG Ellison. Those numbers again:
Gov: (651) 201-3400
AG: (651) 296-3353My points when I call:
- We don’t trust Trump’s FBI
- We want an independent MN-based investigation of the killing of Good
- Thank you for steps you’re already taking in this direction
- Do more, try harder
- Do so in outright defiance of the FBI if necessary(To be clear, this is all just from Paul; if I get better guidance from more informed folks, I will share/update.)
Oof. The challenge with Walz (and other Governors who might be looking for models of resistance) mobilizing the Natl Guard to contain ICE:
It sets up a really dicey situation.
Now the streets are full of cops, ICE/DHS/CBP, the Guard, and residents.That's...not great.
There will be conflicting orders (National Guard will be authorized to do what? Engage with ICE if they see shenanigans? What is a shenanigans? Are they going to engage with any fed agent? And what are the cops for? Just escorts?? For whom?). Conflicting levels of readiness. Jacked up man-feelings from the feds. Community anger and fear. The White House will inflame the situation and suddenly the Dem Governor is in a media, political, and quasi militaryish quagmire of zero wins.
And more residents will be killed and neighbors snatched.
It'll be a shitshow.
A shitshow that Trump and DHS will use to do even crazier things.
But demanding full transparency and accountability is a good ask.
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@quietmarc sounds good, thanks.
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@quietmarc after!
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@evan like wtf. To my friends and followers who require alt text to even *read* a post it is the ONLY thing, buddy.
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@evan Shall I block you before or after I explain this?
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@niekolaas hello and welcome!
