I'm excited to show off #Atlas - a social mapping server for the #Fediverse.
General Discussion
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I'm expecting this kind of street-level annotation to have lots of uses, from groups of friends replicating #FourSquare, to communities organizing events, or citizen #Journalists recording what's going on in their neighborhood.
Please share this with anyone who might benefit from sharing location notes online. It's time for me to start collecting some needs from real-world users.
@benpate This is really great! One project that could very well be a nail for this hammer is https://wanderer.to !
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Better Atlas than the other one. A couple of questions:
- are you envisioning this to be a federated Foursquare or Yelp?
- inserting location tags to people's posts increases their personal data exposure quite a lot. What privacy implications do you see here?
- I didn't catch in the video what is the identity model you're basing this on. New identity on Atlas, or a tie-in to an existing fedi identity?
@benpateosma@mas.to benpate@mastodon.social I'd assume that if you're using Atlas that you're explicitly aware that the location data is being broadcast out, yeah?
I'd imagine it to be akin to an opt-in mechanism.
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I think we have enough evidence by now to know that even people who should have training to know better, accidentally reveal too much on apps, and that location is a particularly sensitive item.
https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1978942.1979295
https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/news/a40358143/strava-israeli-military/
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@julian @osma @benpate I don’t think that an app should tie my physical location to posting about a location, and it is not necessarily true that you need to be there to talk about that location.
And that could be anything from trip advisor like blog posts and reviews to boosting and chatting about social activism or events happening at a location.
For example, I may want to location tag Yosemite when writing about the current lack of funding to protect the land from human aggression. Or I would want to do so when writing about my experience at the top of Half Dome decades ago as part of a shared human experience.
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I'm expecting this kind of street-level annotation to have lots of uses, from groups of friends replicating #FourSquare, to communities organizing events, or citizen #Journalists recording what's going on in their neighborhood.
Please share this with anyone who might benefit from sharing location notes online. It's time for me to start collecting some needs from real-world users.
@benpate this could be fun for geocaching
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@ddlyh Cool. And thank you. I'll check it out. I can't really compare features until I've done the class reading --but Atlas is pretty bare-bones right now, so I'll have a lot of catching up to do for anything that's already out there.
The good thing is that Atlas is an empty slate, and we can make it do whatever we need.
So, for favorites: is this to mark locations in your inbox as "favorite" locations to review later?
What are the important things we should put into this app?
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@benpate This is awesome. I've been toying with an idea like this for years and it will IMHO be a killer app for AR.
@ben Yeah, I really wanted to post comments on some billboards I saw on the freeway. Augmented Reality is beyond my current skillset -- and to make it work, we'd probably need to build out an AR ecosystem on the Fediverse, too.
Hopefully tagging addresses/locations is enough of a step forward that we can find some good uses for this.
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@ben Yeah, I really wanted to post comments on some billboards I saw on the freeway. Augmented Reality is beyond my current skillset -- and to make it work, we'd probably need to build out an AR ecosystem on the Fediverse, too.
Hopefully tagging addresses/locations is enough of a step forward that we can find some good uses for this.
@benpate I think the federation is the hard part. I think writing the actual AR application is probably pretty straightforward, at least for developers who are already familiar with their AR platform. (I don't know visionOS or whatever Meta uses, but I know iOS and I doubt it's that much different.)
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Sure, doing taxiteam for the german yellow cabs. Described some aspects in https://github.com/w3c/activitystreams/issues/582
Would be interested in finishing the federated geocoding part together.
@sl007 Yes, I'd love to work together on geocoding, too.
Right now, there's not much to it..
I'm using commercial geocoders to translate addresses into Lat/Long, then including that in 1) the ActivityStream document, and 2) the search results.
I'd love to work with https://places.pub in some way, but I'm not sure (yet) what that integration would look like, or what we'd get out of it.
So yes: let's keep talking about how we make this seamless. There should be one standard, not six :)
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Hey Julian..
I would love to integrate with places.pub, and I have this on my list of bookmarks for research.
I'm not sure what that would look like, just yet. Right now, the `Place` isn't its own actor, but just an extra set of data on a `Note`.
Maybe I could use places.pub as a datasource to look up previous addresses? I'm still researching, and would love to get your suggestions :)
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@benpate this is pretty exciting! do you have any idea what safety features will look like? would you build something into it that, say, actively prevents others from doxing someone?
I'll build whatever people say is most important. These policies will likely be up to individual server owners.
After spammers found Bandwagon, I've been kicking around ways to do moderation before profiles and posts become public.
But whether we're using maps or toots, the issues would still be the same. Bad actors will need to be identified quickly, and dealt with decisively.
I'm adding this into the project board. Feel free to pile on: https://github.com/orgs/EmissarySocial/projects/3/views/1?pane=issue&itemId=135226795&issue=EmissarySocial%7Cemissary%7C566
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@benpate love what you’ve done so far. Can see so many uses. There’s a definite need to have ‘private’ tags / entries as well as public ones.
@RossA Yes. And this is a really good point.
I'm planning to use Emissary's "Circles" for this (https://emissary.dev/circles) which let you limit posts to certain people. I'll show this in the next video.
And right now, Atlas also has disappearing messages that auto-delete after a set period time.
Nothing on the Fediverse is 100% private; it's always possible a remote server might share your "private" posts with unintended people. But this should help limit comments in most cases.
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@benpate Super cool! I wish the README had instructions on how to run this :)
@decibyte Sorry about the README. Right now, Atlas barely runs on my own development laptop.
I've added a lot of new stuff into Emissary to support geolocation, and that still needs to be merged and posted to Github.
But, I'd love to work with you to see this run on your machines - even if it's still an early draft.
I'll have a super-rough-preview release ready in the next few weeks. Let's try to talk then and I'll help you get it running.
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Better Atlas than the other one. A couple of questions:
- are you envisioning this to be a federated Foursquare or Yelp?
- inserting location tags to people's posts increases their personal data exposure quite a lot. What privacy implications do you see here?
- I didn't catch in the video what is the identity model you're basing this on. New identity on Atlas, or a tie-in to an existing fedi identity?
@benpateHey Osma :) There are lots of uses that I'm still exploring. I could see us using this like Foursquare, Yelp, geocaching, and even local cityguides and journalism.
Hopefully we can find the right balance of features that can cover many.
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Better Atlas than the other one. A couple of questions:
- are you envisioning this to be a federated Foursquare or Yelp?
- inserting location tags to people's posts increases their personal data exposure quite a lot. What privacy implications do you see here?
- I didn't catch in the video what is the identity model you're basing this on. New identity on Atlas, or a tie-in to an existing fedi identity?
@benpateRegarding location privacy, this only requires *A* location, not *YOUR* location. So, you could always just type in an address you want to share.
I'm working to build in something for people to use the location services on their device to look up their exact location, but this would be something users would opt-in to for every post.
But to show up on a map, SOME kind of location will be required. Otherwise, you'd be better off posting from Mastodon, and not Atlas.
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Better Atlas than the other one. A couple of questions:
- are you envisioning this to be a federated Foursquare or Yelp?
- inserting location tags to people's posts increases their personal data exposure quite a lot. What privacy implications do you see here?
- I didn't catch in the video what is the identity model you're basing this on. New identity on Atlas, or a tie-in to an existing fedi identity?
@benpate@osma And regarding Identity: This will be its own server with a separate identity/account from your daily Mastodon ID. Although you could always link the two with rel=me tags, I don't have an easy way for you to use this to post from a remote server.
But interestingly, @julian has been championing the use of the ActivityPub API for more sophisticated emote interactions. Perhaps in the future we'll have a way to do this.
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This is exactly right. And, it's the way Atlas currently works. You can just type in any address you want to share. You don't have to be there to do it.
I'll eventually add a widget where users can share the geolocation data from their device, but this would be opt-in for every post, and never required.
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I think we have enough evidence by now to know that even people who should have training to know better, accidentally reveal too much on apps, and that location is a particularly sensitive item.
https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1978942.1979295
https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/news/a40358143/strava-israeli-military/
@osma @julian I've seen headlines like this in the past.
It's hard to account for every crazy thing people will do with the tools we make. But I'm planning to make it so you explicitly choose to look up your actual location with every post. I'll have to get into the actual code to see what's possible, but I believe this will be enough control that it should avoid accidents like these, yes?
Let's keep talking about location and privacy. It's important that we get this right.
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@benpate This is really great! One project that could very well be a nail for this hammer is https://wanderer.to !
@DePemig Thank you Gilles :) I'm adding this to my bookmarks.
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@Edent wow, that was fast, thank you!
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@Edent @silverpill don't use nulls. Just omit it.
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Maybe #bovine is, what you're looking for.
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@threkk the bot can now send Delete messages. They're processed successfully by Mastodon.social - so I assume they work elsewhere 🙂
Will have a think about editing.
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@edent@mastodon.social :shrug: I was passing null around like candy but some implementations choke on that. In general, tolerance of odd values in cc is well handled, but I would just omit or send [].
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@silverpill @julian @general
Ah, I assume that `cc` should also be null if it isn't copied to anyone?
