Absolutely true.
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@cstross I've had a project sponsor in a financial institution tell me, within the same week, "If we get this wrong I could go to prison" and "We can go faster if Copilot reviews the pull requests that Claude generates" so I do not have much trust in banking being averse to risk.
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RE: https://mstdn.ca/@charette/116127384919473905
Absolutely true.
(For those who haven't dealt with banking IT: banks are in the business of managing financial risk, and it doesn't get any riskier than allowing an enthusiastic intern who occasionally lies to you and hallucinates on the job to refactor a 60 year old code base that nobody really understands, without oversight, that handles all your customers' money. The phrase "sued into a smoking crater of banking wreckage the instant anything goes wrong" springs to mind!)
@cstross Don't banks also have a history of getting billions in free money from the government when they fuck up hard enough...?
IT won't make that decision, but most AI mandates are coming from the higher level executives...
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@cstross Don't banks also have a history of getting billions in free money from the government when they fuck up hard enough...?
IT won't make that decision, but most AI mandates are coming from the higher level executives...
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@8r3n7 My experience was of '96-2000.
In 2008/09, half the main banks in the UK were nationalized to stop them going bust and taking half the populations' mortgages and savings with them. They ended up back in private hands again a decade later.
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@quinn @jzillw I spent a few years doing back end dev in a payment service provider that hooked into all the big British high street banks. About 10% of their managers were brilliant, 70% were a waste of oxygen, and 20% were clearly undercover anarchists seeking the downfall of capitalism by weaponizing Svejk-like cheerful ineptitude.
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Vibe coding could cause a disaster there, yes. But AI assisted refactoring might be part of a solution.
@dummzeuch @jawarajabbi @jzillw @cstross The important term is "assisted". And boy, assistance we need with that...
I'm not involved in the project in my company, we are doing exactly that refactoring (though not LLM-assisted) - and in parts actually develop new systems to replace the old one. -
@ldmay65 @causticmsngo @jzillw @cstross
No. But definitely try not to exceed the FDIC-insured maximum of $250,000 per bank if you can. If you have $500K lying around, keep it in two different banks.
Notwithstanding the incompetence and corruption of the Trump regime, the Federal Reserve and its affiliated systems are still holding up.
@jawarajabbi @ldmay65 @causticmsngo @jzillw @cstross
And, we presume, have substantial vested interest in not collapsing....
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@cstross I've had a project sponsor in a financial institution tell me, within the same week, "If we get this wrong I could go to prison" and "We can go faster if Copilot reviews the pull requests that Claude generates" so I do not have much trust in banking being averse to risk.
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@cstross I've had a project sponsor in a financial institution tell me, within the same week, "If we get this wrong I could go to prison" and "We can go faster if Copilot reviews the pull requests that Claude generates" so I do not have much trust in banking being averse to risk.
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RE: https://mstdn.ca/@charette/116127384919473905
Absolutely true.
(For those who haven't dealt with banking IT: banks are in the business of managing financial risk, and it doesn't get any riskier than allowing an enthusiastic intern who occasionally lies to you and hallucinates on the job to refactor a 60 year old code base that nobody really understands, without oversight, that handles all your customers' money. The phrase "sued into a smoking crater of banking wreckage the instant anything goes wrong" springs to mind!)
@cstross There is, at a rough estimate, over a Trillion-with-a-T dollars of VC funding behind pushing LLMs. That's the kind of money that can rather easily make governments look the other way at "a few computer glitches". No craters, I'm afraid. The old rules don't apply anymore.
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RE: https://mstdn.ca/@charette/116127384919473905
Absolutely true.
(For those who haven't dealt with banking IT: banks are in the business of managing financial risk, and it doesn't get any riskier than allowing an enthusiastic intern who occasionally lies to you and hallucinates on the job to refactor a 60 year old code base that nobody really understands, without oversight, that handles all your customers' money. The phrase "sued into a smoking crater of banking wreckage the instant anything goes wrong" springs to mind!)
@cstross Yep. They have enough trouble accepting conversions of code that involve formal proofs that the result is identical let alone a pattern recognition engine mostly built on junk github code and stackexchange nonsense.
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@jawarajabbi @ldmay65 @causticmsngo @jzillw @cstross
And, we presume, have substantial vested interest in not collapsing....
@cavyherd @jawarajabbi @ldmay65 @jzillw @cstross It’s not like 2008 was that long ago. It’s all the same people in charge & no one went to jail.
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RE: https://mstdn.ca/@charette/116127384919473905
Absolutely true.
(For those who haven't dealt with banking IT: banks are in the business of managing financial risk, and it doesn't get any riskier than allowing an enthusiastic intern who occasionally lies to you and hallucinates on the job to refactor a 60 year old code base that nobody really understands, without oversight, that handles all your customers' money. The phrase "sued into a smoking crater of banking wreckage the instant anything goes wrong" springs to mind!)
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@8r3n7 My experience was of '96-2000.
In 2008/09, half the main banks in the UK were nationalized to stop them going bust and taking half the populations' mortgages and savings with them. They ended up back in private hands again a decade later.
@cstross And virtually no punishments for any bankers or ratings agencies. Just a few scapegoats. Banks are immune to their own mistakes. Too big to fail. They have carte blanche to do whatever stupid vibe banking they want.
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RE: https://mstdn.ca/@charette/116127384919473905
Absolutely true.
(For those who haven't dealt with banking IT: banks are in the business of managing financial risk, and it doesn't get any riskier than allowing an enthusiastic intern who occasionally lies to you and hallucinates on the job to refactor a 60 year old code base that nobody really understands, without oversight, that handles all your customers' money. The phrase "sued into a smoking crater of banking wreckage the instant anything goes wrong" springs to mind!)
> The phrase "sued into a smoking crater of banking wreckage the instant anything goes wrong" springs to mind!)
Is that how it works in the UK? I come from the land of "too big to fail" and "they were promised their bonuses so we have to pay them."
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@cavyherd @jawarajabbi @ldmay65 @jzillw @cstross It’s not like 2008 was that long ago. It’s all the same people in charge & no one went to jail.
Not really connected. The perpetrators of the near-collapse of the US banking system were not the small to mid-sized regional banks.
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RE: https://mstdn.ca/@charette/116127384919473905
Absolutely true.
(For those who haven't dealt with banking IT: banks are in the business of managing financial risk, and it doesn't get any riskier than allowing an enthusiastic intern who occasionally lies to you and hallucinates on the job to refactor a 60 year old code base that nobody really understands, without oversight, that handles all your customers' money. The phrase "sued into a smoking crater of banking wreckage the instant anything goes wrong" springs to mind!)
@cstross I saw a comment on the Reg story on this that made again the point that often gets missed with the talk of replacing COBOL, that it's not just the COBOL, and in many ways that's the easiest part, it's the surrounding transaction layers and databases and z/OS filesystem components, most of which don't really map onto the usual Linux based platforms very easily at all.
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@cstross I've had a project sponsor in a financial institution tell me, within the same week, "If we get this wrong I could go to prison" and "We can go faster if Copilot reviews the pull requests that Claude generates" so I do not have much trust in banking being averse to risk.
@skolima @cstross I second that I don't think finance is conservative for tech. They can be quite bullish on tech, I've worked with a small one who was very into Blockchain and early AI swell (they don't exist anymore for obvious reasons). Just look at the push to use only app, no in person service, they are one of the biggest drivers of it.
Law firms are arguably far more fuddy and slow to move forward (having just worked for one, they had staff who still hand wrote or dictated for transcription by typists). Some have been caught making stuff up for court because an AI made up a case and law etc.
AI is going to be in your bank, because their investment arms are buying into it and the bubble must grow (IMHO) -
@cstross There is, at a rough estimate, over a Trillion-with-a-T dollars of VC funding behind pushing LLMs. That's the kind of money that can rather easily make governments look the other way at "a few computer glitches". No craters, I'm afraid. The old rules don't apply anymore.
@fn0rd @cstross No, the old rules still apply the moment you start fiddling around with the government's flow of money. Banks pump the money around. You don't change the core infrastructure just because a few hyperscalers offer your IT teams a few million $$$ of free AI tokens.
What you do do is that you may try LLMs in the customer interface, maybe in fraud detection and perhaps in documenting your code.
There's no way that the next flash crash will be blamed on a few interns who vibe coded a major bank's e-trading core or transaction banking engine.
The same may not apply to challenger banks or shadow banks, though.
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@mwl oh you took it from elsewhere, got it
ill at least see if the lettering is consistent, seems like that was added afterwards but i cant tell (assuming it was ai generated anyhow)
most of what leads me to thing its ai generated is some weird inconsistencies on lines, odd coloring choices as well that no sane digital artist would realistically do, theres some inconsistent levels of detail too, and i think the biggest thing here is that the background changes between some shots, which considering its the effectively the same background for each shot i dont find it to be very likely an artist would redo the background and have it end up nearly identical for each shot, but still slightly different
give me a bit, ill do some analysis on this all myself to try and determine if its ai or not
at least if it is it doesnt seem like it was intentional from you, which doing it on accident is miles better than doing it on purpose
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@kenobit ma torni a Piacenza!!!! Io impazzisco. 💜💜💜
Non vedo l'ora di ascoltarvi!
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@mwl thanks to the epstein class, that's most nursing homes.
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@denial403 molto volentieri. Bisognerebbe organizzarsi per fare una videocall…
