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Social Forum federato con il resto del mondo. Non contano le istanze, contano le persone

@pfefferle Gibt es in #ActivityPub die Möglichkeit, Quotes zu erlauben?

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Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
  • @benjohn it's not a peer to peer protocol. It's federated - meaning you can pick a provider - like email or the Fediverse.

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  • @daniel I was just checking out the Wikipedia page, thanks for the pointer. … does it work well peer to peer? Identifies seem to be tied to a domain?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP

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  • @daniel@gultsch.social absolutely, the same naive expectations happen often when people think forums are easy to build :smile:

    @pixelschubsi@troet.cafe is definitely on to something about re-using an existing XMPP server in order to avoid the heavy lift. The less the maintenance burden for me, the better as far as I'm concerned.

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  • @julian @pixelschubsi I understand the instinct of wanting to reuse the parts you already have. Protocol parsing, identities, profiles etc. However those will very quickly become extremely minor building blocks in the complexity of instant messaging.
    It's very easy to underestimate the scope and feature creep of IM. I've seen this happening in other places where people initially think that IM is just passing some messages around. And then users demand more features and then you reinvent XMPP.

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  • @julian @daniel so in practice it would probably be the other way round: that heavy lifting you're rightfully afraid of has already been done and even the large tail of the remaining 20% (that in reality need 80% of the effort) are largely done.

    If we were to agree to go the XMPP route, we could have fully-featuered deployment-ready implementations of instant messaging on top of AP identities in weeks to months. If it's something entirely new on top of AP, it's going to take years.

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  • @julian @daniel I'm looking at it from a different perspective. IMO the Mastodon server (as an example) doesn't need to implement XMPP itself (it could, but it doesn't need to). Just like it doesn't implement HTTP itself.

    It could instead rely on existing implementations. Take an existing XMPP server, reverse proxy its websocket endpoint, use the existing Mastodon auth to sign in, and embed an existing XMPP web client in the web frontend.

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  • @silverpill @pixelschubsi @tris you can have a single account (or as I phrased it 'identity and login credentials') across different protocols.
    For example your Google account works across multiple protocols. And even in the federated world we have several cases where email address == xmpp address.
    So to repeat myself: using the same identity is good. Doesn't mean you are locked into ActivityPub if you want to build instant messaging.

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  • To preface — I'm in agreement that ActivityPub probably isn't the best protocol to use for instant messaging. There's a lot of FUD still being spread about XMPP and I am outside of most of those discussions. NodeBB only supports AP at current.

    That said, there's interest in pursuing AP as a delivery protocol for instant messaging because integrating a separate protocol is a heavy lift for everybody involved. It's a heavy lift if you already support AP, and it's a heavy lift when you support no federating protocols at all. Imagine a site looking to federate... now they have to use AP+XMPP? AP+Delta? etc...

    Setting aside all the existing reasons why AP isn't ideal, I will say this... It clears the baseline expectations:

    Messages can get sent via AP :heavy_check_mark: Messages can be privately addressed via existing AP addressing mechanisms :heavy_check_mark:

    That's it. The rest is icing. Really important icing, but for 99% of conversations, icing.

    @daniel@gultsch.social @pixelschubsi@troet.cafe

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Post suggeriti
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    @julian possibly, but I was trying to answer to what I thought was Çağan's argument. It feels to me like there was no confusion about ActivityPub being able to update a preferredUsername, name or any other property of an Actor outside of it's ID.I was hoping he didn't confuse Mastodon for ActivityPub but maybe I'm wrong. :D
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    I think I have identified a fairly significant flaw in how the #Fediverse currently operates. Hear me out.The Fediverse currently consists of all sorts of different systems - #Mastodon, #Friendica , #Pixelfed , #PeerTube, #BookWyrm , and so forth. And while they are all connected via the #ActivityPub protocol, they all have different functionalities and different ways of presenting themselves. Which is as it should be, because Diversity Is Our Strength(TM).However, it is here that the ActivityPub-based interactivity hits its limits - for usually, you can either experience the relevant system as it was intended, or you can interact with it, but not both - _unless_ you have an account on the same system (though not necessarily on the same instance).Let's say that you are a Mastodon user who looks at another person's BookWyrm page. You scroll through their books, posts, and comments. Then you see some comment you want to comment on yourself, but can you do so?Not directly. You need to figure out the URL of their comment, and then copy and paste that comment into the search bar of your Mastodon instance. Then it will show up in the same format as a Mastodon post, and you can interact with it - boost it, like it, comment on it.Sure, it works, but it's a whole lot of tedious effort.Or you can search for the user account in Mastodon and scroll through all their posts and comments as if they were a Mastodon user - and thus, you will miss out on all the unique user interface features of BookWyrm.So what is missing?Well, Mastodon already has an "Open original page" feature when looking at someone's post. What we need is an "Open original page AND AUTHENTICATE" feature. This way, the target instance (whatever software they are using) could acknowledge the viewer as an external user who could nevertheless fully interact with the local user interface, including the ability to boost, like, and make comments.This is something that should be theoretically possible to implement, right? #FediHelp
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    Sorry for the 23,492 #activitypub messages but it turns out "Chadds Ford" has no apostrophe.
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    @reiverIs this feature documented? I didn't find any information in the readme.If it's still in development, could you create a tracking issue in the Codeberg repo? I would subscribe to it.