The most thought provoking article I have read this week:
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The most thought provoking article I have read this week:
A Norwegian bus company wants to know if their buses could be abused by China in the case of war.
So they drive two buses deep into a limestone mine to isolate them from the internet and forensically investigate how they work.
In the mine, investigators discover a Chinese kill switch which could destroy all Chinese buses.
In Denmark, that is 57 percent of the bus fleet.
Source (Danish):
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The most thought provoking article I have read this week:
A Norwegian bus company wants to know if their buses could be abused by China in the case of war.
So they drive two buses deep into a limestone mine to isolate them from the internet and forensically investigate how they work.
In the mine, investigators discover a Chinese kill switch which could destroy all Chinese buses.
In Denmark, that is 57 percent of the bus fleet.
Source (Danish):
@randahl "Wer Billig kauft, kauft zweimal" ... means "Who buys cheap, buys twice"
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The most thought provoking article I have read this week:
A Norwegian bus company wants to know if their buses could be abused by China in the case of war.
So they drive two buses deep into a limestone mine to isolate them from the internet and forensically investigate how they work.
In the mine, investigators discover a Chinese kill switch which could destroy all Chinese buses.
In Denmark, that is 57 percent of the bus fleet.
Source (Danish):
@randahl To be honest: I'd love a broad scale analysis of this. Few days ago it as a vacuum cleaner, now buses...
Test this in all things. From mobile phones to cars (don't care if Chinese, US or German), smart beds (well... actually leave these ones out. Who buys a bed that needs internet?!), switches, routers, water pumps, ....
I bet they'll find stuff in too many places.
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The most thought provoking article I have read this week:
A Norwegian bus company wants to know if their buses could be abused by China in the case of war.
So they drive two buses deep into a limestone mine to isolate them from the internet and forensically investigate how they work.
In the mine, investigators discover a Chinese kill switch which could destroy all Chinese buses.
In Denmark, that is 57 percent of the bus fleet.
Source (Danish):
@randahl there is a little thing called a specification when you buy something. You need to be absolutely sure you have full control over your technology you own.
Some people might find open hardware and open source guys annoying but this what they talk about. -
The most thought provoking article I have read this week:
A Norwegian bus company wants to know if their buses could be abused by China in the case of war.
So they drive two buses deep into a limestone mine to isolate them from the internet and forensically investigate how they work.
In the mine, investigators discover a Chinese kill switch which could destroy all Chinese buses.
In Denmark, that is 57 percent of the bus fleet.
Source (Danish):
@randahl Not just China doing this. I remember https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/manufacturer-deliberately-bricked-trains-repaired-by-competitors-hackers-find/
It is generally not a good idea to give others control over apparatuses that you own.
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@randahl "Wer Billig kauft, kauft zweimal" ... means "Who buys cheap, buys twice"
@titanmanfred @randahl John Deere tractors aren't cheap, to buy or to repair.
I wonder where the Chinese got the idea of software/IP lock in from?https://pluralistic.net/2022/08/15/deere-in-headlights/#doh-a-deere
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@randahl To be honest: I'd love a broad scale analysis of this. Few days ago it as a vacuum cleaner, now buses...
Test this in all things. From mobile phones to cars (don't care if Chinese, US or German), smart beds (well... actually leave these ones out. Who buys a bed that needs internet?!), switches, routers, water pumps, ....
I bet they'll find stuff in too many places.
@jesterchen I would like all hospital equipment to be tested.
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The most thought provoking article I have read this week:
A Norwegian bus company wants to know if their buses could be abused by China in the case of war.
So they drive two buses deep into a limestone mine to isolate them from the internet and forensically investigate how they work.
In the mine, investigators discover a Chinese kill switch which could destroy all Chinese buses.
In Denmark, that is 57 percent of the bus fleet.
Source (Danish):
@randahl What! 🤨 How would the switch destroy the bus? What's the trick?
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@randahl What! 🤨 How would the switch destroy the bus? What's the trick?
@thierry_van_kerm for instance, systems that download software updates, could potentially download a software update which deliberately contains errors.
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The most thought provoking article I have read this week:
A Norwegian bus company wants to know if their buses could be abused by China in the case of war.
So they drive two buses deep into a limestone mine to isolate them from the internet and forensically investigate how they work.
In the mine, investigators discover a Chinese kill switch which could destroy all Chinese buses.
In Denmark, that is 57 percent of the bus fleet.
Source (Danish):
@randahl
Here's another article about this in German: -
@titanmanfred @randahl John Deere tractors aren't cheap, to buy or to repair.
I wonder where the Chinese got the idea of software/IP lock in from?https://pluralistic.net/2022/08/15/deere-in-headlights/#doh-a-deere
@titanmanfred @randahl just to amplifiy this point. Nearly all internet connected devices have a kill switch.
Teslas have a kill switch
Your ISP supplied router has a kill switch
Your phone has a kill switch
Your Windows computer has a kill switch
Your programmable bed has a kill switch
Your robot vacuum has a kill switch
Your MS Mail account and your Bank account has a kill switch (ask ICC judges)
Your data in the US owned cloud (even if hosted in Europe) has a kill switch
F35 planes, NATO donated to Ukraine, have a kill switch.
Your Polish locomotive has a kill switch (activated if you try and use an independent repair shop).
All these have been mentioned in the news and in the Fediverse recently.Most of these are controlled by US or Chinese companies. Particularly with Trump in charge and alll the tech Billionaires subbing him are you sure that the American ones are less lilkely to be used against you by the USAian companies than the Chinese companies to disable your kit and maybe your life?a
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@titanmanfred @randahl just to amplifiy this point. Nearly all internet connected devices have a kill switch.
Teslas have a kill switch
Your ISP supplied router has a kill switch
Your phone has a kill switch
Your Windows computer has a kill switch
Your programmable bed has a kill switch
Your robot vacuum has a kill switch
Your MS Mail account and your Bank account has a kill switch (ask ICC judges)
Your data in the US owned cloud (even if hosted in Europe) has a kill switch
F35 planes, NATO donated to Ukraine, have a kill switch.
Your Polish locomotive has a kill switch (activated if you try and use an independent repair shop).
All these have been mentioned in the news and in the Fediverse recently.Most of these are controlled by US or Chinese companies. Particularly with Trump in charge and alll the tech Billionaires subbing him are you sure that the American ones are less lilkely to be used against you by the USAian companies than the Chinese companies to disable your kit and maybe your life?a
@marjolica @randahl lukily I am not using many of these toys :-)
* my cars are 1975 and 1990
* using Linux since 20years
* ... -
The most thought provoking article I have read this week:
A Norwegian bus company wants to know if their buses could be abused by China in the case of war.
So they drive two buses deep into a limestone mine to isolate them from the internet and forensically investigate how they work.
In the mine, investigators discover a Chinese kill switch which could destroy all Chinese buses.
In Denmark, that is 57 percent of the bus fleet.
Source (Danish):
@randahl Reminds me of Polish train manufacturer bricking their trains located close to independent repair shops.
So far, the only people suffering for this decision are the people that helped unbrick the trains in question.
This is not a China phenomenon but a greed one. Not to say that Chinese government doesn’t enjoy the results, just that I doubt they had to actively instruct anyone to include these kill switches.
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The most thought provoking article I have read this week:
A Norwegian bus company wants to know if their buses could be abused by China in the case of war.
So they drive two buses deep into a limestone mine to isolate them from the internet and forensically investigate how they work.
In the mine, investigators discover a Chinese kill switch which could destroy all Chinese buses.
In Denmark, that is 57 percent of the bus fleet.
Source (Danish):
@randahl
European option:"The extensive network of IVECO BUS and IVECO service points guarantees support wherever a vehicle is operating worldwide. The manufacturer employs more than 5,000 people and has five factories, located in Annonay and Rorthais in France, in Vysoké Myto in the Czech Republic, and in Brescia and Foggia, in Italy."
https://www.ivecobus.com/france/La-Marque -
The most thought provoking article I have read this week:
A Norwegian bus company wants to know if their buses could be abused by China in the case of war.
So they drive two buses deep into a limestone mine to isolate them from the internet and forensically investigate how they work.
In the mine, investigators discover a Chinese kill switch which could destroy all Chinese buses.
In Denmark, that is 57 percent of the bus fleet.
Source (Danish):
@randahl Sad story, Alstom Aptis was manufacturing good electrical buses in Alsace, France, but due to low demand, they cease activities in 2021.
European Union countries should give priority to EU products so that OUR companies don't close and to prevent sad surprises. -
@marjolica @randahl lukily I am not using many of these toys :-)
* my cars are 1975 and 1990
* using Linux since 20years
* ...@titanmanfred @marjolica @randahl Attaboy. 😉
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@thierry_van_kerm for instance, systems that download software updates, could potentially download a software update which deliberately contains errors.
@randahl @thierry_van_kerm which is also a risk even if the supplier is honest. It's how the Russians destroyed a whole load of satellite kit just before Ukraine kicked off. Compromise the vendor downloads and ship firmware that physically burns the flash memory. At that point it's probably a PCB swap to restore for most users. A PCB that won't be stocked in bulk, probably uses components no longer manufactured and cannot trivially be mass manufactured again.
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@randahl Reminds me of Polish train manufacturer bricking their trains located close to independent repair shops.
So far, the only people suffering for this decision are the people that helped unbrick the trains in question.
This is not a China phenomenon but a greed one. Not to say that Chinese government doesn’t enjoy the results, just that I doubt they had to actively instruct anyone to include these kill switches.
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@DrEdBridges @titanmanfred @marjolica @randahl you should probably save that one for when linux isn't just mentioned in passing and also relevant to the discussion.
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Too bad I didn't pay enough attention to the FEP draft.
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It does not mean I am right. I think the right balance lies somewhere in between.
