so if i were to rent a "server" for "self hosting",
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so if i were to rent a "server" for "self hosting",
1) what region/country is least likely to introduce draconian anti-privacy laws? eg, not USA, not EU, not Australia, etc
2) and is moderately unlikely to be walled off from the USA? eg I hopefully wont need to convince my friends who are still waffling on whether the discord real ID thing is a bridge too far how to use tor lol
EDIT: turns out this is a bad idea, see replies
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so if i were to rent a "server" for "self hosting",
1) what region/country is least likely to introduce draconian anti-privacy laws? eg, not USA, not EU, not Australia, etc
2) and is moderately unlikely to be walled off from the USA? eg I hopefully wont need to convince my friends who are still waffling on whether the discord real ID thing is a bridge too far how to use tor lol
EDIT: turns out this is a bad idea, see replies
@aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place romania (it's part of the EU, but uniquely privacy friendly compared to the other member states), iceland, switzerland, malaysia, maybe singapore, maybe panama, brazil
the hard part is finding a server that's good, affordable, and also owned and operated by a company that is itself headquartered in one of these countries -
so if i were to rent a "server" for "self hosting",
1) what region/country is least likely to introduce draconian anti-privacy laws? eg, not USA, not EU, not Australia, etc
2) and is moderately unlikely to be walled off from the USA? eg I hopefully wont need to convince my friends who are still waffling on whether the discord real ID thing is a bridge too far how to use tor lol
EDIT: turns out this is a bad idea, see replies
@aeva I was about to suggest "whatever WikiLeaks used" but following the trail only shows european providers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiLeaks#Hosting -
so if i were to rent a "server" for "self hosting",
1) what region/country is least likely to introduce draconian anti-privacy laws? eg, not USA, not EU, not Australia, etc
2) and is moderately unlikely to be walled off from the USA? eg I hopefully wont need to convince my friends who are still waffling on whether the discord real ID thing is a bridge too far how to use tor lol
EDIT: turns out this is a bad idea, see replies
@aeva I wish you good luck with this search but there are a couple of things you should keep in mind:
1. Hosting internationally gives the US broader authority to surveil you without due process. This is the loophole that the NSA use(d|s) to surveil US citizens: they were interacting across borders. If your server isn't in the US, nobody needs a warrant, they can drop a 0day on your provider. Nominally this is illegal in the US and there are still circumstances where that might protect you.
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@aeva I wish you good luck with this search but there are a couple of things you should keep in mind:
1. Hosting internationally gives the US broader authority to surveil you without due process. This is the loophole that the NSA use(d|s) to surveil US citizens: they were interacting across borders. If your server isn't in the US, nobody needs a warrant, they can drop a 0day on your provider. Nominally this is illegal in the US and there are still circumstances where that might protect you.
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2. Any provider that can accept non-cryptocurrency payment is attached to the US banking system and is probably going to be responsive to US subpoenas anyway.
3. *You* still have to be responsive to US subpoenas, regardless of where the server is hosted; if you delete your password or whatever they can jail you for contempt until you contact your provider's customer service.
There are definitely threat models where it makes sense to have an international host, but it's complicated.
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@aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place romania (it's part of the EU, but uniquely privacy friendly compared to the other member states), iceland, switzerland, malaysia, maybe singapore, maybe panama, brazil
the hard part is finding a server that's good, affordable, and also owned and operated by a company that is itself headquartered in one of these countries@kit ok, so, every few weeks there's a flurry of panicked posts to rally the EU folks to sign petitions or such to "stop chat control, again". if this "chat control" thing were to happen, would romania be obligated to implement it by being a member state? as a foreigner, I am unclear on how this works.
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2. Any provider that can accept non-cryptocurrency payment is attached to the US banking system and is probably going to be responsive to US subpoenas anyway.
3. *You* still have to be responsive to US subpoenas, regardless of where the server is hosted; if you delete your password or whatever they can jail you for contempt until you contact your provider's customer service.
There are definitely threat models where it makes sense to have an international host, but it's complicated.
@glyph ah, interesting. glad to not find all this out the hard way 🙃
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@kit ok, so, every few weeks there's a flurry of panicked posts to rally the EU folks to sign petitions or such to "stop chat control, again". if this "chat control" thing were to happen, would romania be obligated to implement it by being a member state? as a foreigner, I am unclear on how this works.
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@glyph ah, interesting. glad to not find all this out the hard way 🙃
@aeva there are like 10 different caveats to each of my own bullet points that I already know, and probably 10 more that I don't, so it's definitely not cut and dry. but it's messy and confusing enough that for most stuff, the threat model is a multivariate calculus problem that almost no civilians are qualified to solve, so it's best to just evaluate on properties like "price", "reliability", and "convenience".
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@aeva there are like 10 different caveats to each of my own bullet points that I already know, and probably 10 more that I don't, so it's definitely not cut and dry. but it's messy and confusing enough that for most stuff, the threat model is a multivariate calculus problem that almost no civilians are qualified to solve, so it's best to just evaluate on properties like "price", "reliability", and "convenience".
@aeva If it's really security-sensitive, reach out to the EFF and see if you can find someone who _really_ knows what they're doing (and "select a jurisdictionally optimal hosting provider" probably falls way down the list of stuff you need to do)
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so if i were to rent a "server" for "self hosting",
1) what region/country is least likely to introduce draconian anti-privacy laws? eg, not USA, not EU, not Australia, etc
2) and is moderately unlikely to be walled off from the USA? eg I hopefully wont need to convince my friends who are still waffling on whether the discord real ID thing is a bridge too far how to use tor lol
EDIT: turns out this is a bad idea, see replies
@aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place non-EU european nato countries perhaps
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@kit ok, so, every few weeks there's a flurry of panicked posts to rally the EU folks to sign petitions or such to "stop chat control, again". if this "chat control" thing were to happen, would romania be obligated to implement it by being a member state? as a foreigner, I am unclear on how this works.
@aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place my understanding of chat control is that it's a client sided policy, so EU residents accessing your services would have their personal devices affected by the policy, but your server wouldn't itself be inherently compromised, and if you, say, operated a mail or chat server, it wouldn't be directly surveilled any more than it would have been a decade ago
but I too am a foreigner and could be wrong -
so if i were to rent a "server" for "self hosting",
1) what region/country is least likely to introduce draconian anti-privacy laws? eg, not USA, not EU, not Australia, etc
2) and is moderately unlikely to be walled off from the USA? eg I hopefully wont need to convince my friends who are still waffling on whether the discord real ID thing is a bridge too far how to use tor lol
EDIT: turns out this is a bad idea, see replies
@aeva time to decentralised p2p server infra
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so if i were to rent a "server" for "self hosting",
1) what region/country is least likely to introduce draconian anti-privacy laws? eg, not USA, not EU, not Australia, etc
2) and is moderately unlikely to be walled off from the USA? eg I hopefully wont need to convince my friends who are still waffling on whether the discord real ID thing is a bridge too far how to use tor lol
EDIT: turns out this is a bad idea, see replies
@aeva we live in a society, eh
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@aeva If it's really security-sensitive, reach out to the EFF and see if you can find someone who _really_ knows what they're doing (and "select a jurisdictionally optimal hosting provider" probably falls way down the list of stuff you need to do)
@glyph it wouldn't be for anything sensitive, i just don't want to live in a panopticon prison, and i'm not interested in volunteering to be the one to give my friends' IDs to fascists and databrokers
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@glyph it wouldn't be for anything sensitive, i just don't want to live in a panopticon prison, and i'm not interested in volunteering to be the one to give my friends' IDs to fascists and databrokers
@aeva unfortunately, as you probably already know,
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@aeva time to decentralised p2p server infra
@pupxel honestly if you know of p2p things that have both a good mobile and a good desktop client and implements private message board / chat room / and/or video chat, I'm all ears
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@pupxel honestly if you know of p2p things that have both a good mobile and a good desktop client and implements private message board / chat room / and/or video chat, I'm all ears
@aeva closest hope I have is https://matrix.org/
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2. Any provider that can accept non-cryptocurrency payment is attached to the US banking system and is probably going to be responsive to US subpoenas anyway.
3. *You* still have to be responsive to US subpoenas, regardless of where the server is hosted; if you delete your password or whatever they can jail you for contempt until you contact your provider's customer service.
There are definitely threat models where it makes sense to have an international host, but it's complicated.
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@ratsnakegames @aeva not the FBI, the CIA (or the NSA)
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