@Edent what's so bad about <div> ... or: Why do you want to avoid them?
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@moof I'm not in the Apple ecosystem, so I don't know what terminology they use.
No idea about manufacturers, sorry.
@Edent Thanks anyway. Still quite tempted by this, especially at the new price point.
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@Edent i'm starting to wonder if there are any (FOSS) alternatives to HA
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@Edent@mastodon.social This'll be good to remember when I eventually get around to getting an NFC implant.
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@Edent I’d always assumed they just randomly reject my passport to fuck with me when I’m already tired and cranky 😬
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@Edent For many years I was unable to use the e-gates at any UK airport. One time a Border Force person told me, “The e-gates will never work for you, there is nothing you can do to fix this, and I can't tell you why”.
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@Edent I am feeling a palpable sense of closure even though this has never happened to me
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@Edent For many years I was unable to use the e-gates at any UK airport. One time a Border Force person told me, “The e-gates will never work for you, there is nothing you can do to fix this, and I can't tell you why”.
Friend of mine, who is about 6ft 7 could never get them to work and was told it was because of limits on the camera positioning and his height.
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@Edent Thanks anyway. Still quite tempted by this, especially at the new price point.
@moof @Edent Just hopping into this thread to mention that passkeys aren't Apple-specific. Google has actually been rather involved in the development of the standards, and there are lots of different implementations. 'Passkeys' just refers to a specific way of using FIDO2, so it's all the same technology as in hardware authentication tokens like edent's ring :)
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@Edent Mine never works in the UK, I asked why once:
The passport cut the very top of my head off (hair) and apparently that's no good for the facial detection on the machines...
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@rlonstein @Edent I'm interested to hear this from somebody who has worked with the technology. I've only read about RFID and NFC. The impression I had was that it should be possible to have multiple cards for different purposes present and the reader could select which to communicate with.
That wasn't borne out by my experience however. I couldn't use my office badge if my Oyster card or Southeastern trains Key card was next to it in my card wallet.@sjjh @Edent I'm not an RF Engineer (or any Engineer, really...) but I had several months of hands-on work with it. I'll try to keep the trip down the rabbit hole shallow.
It depends on the type of card, the reader, and the software. RFID is a blanket term for many implementations using different frequencies and types of tags. Considering some common ones that are energized by the reader: UHF tags, used for asset tracking and inventory, signal a tag id and can be read at several meters, the readers will either report multiple tags for reading or return all the tags in range in a go. They're usually designed for durability and quick reads under imperfect conditions; "Proximity" tags in the kHz range, typical of door/gate/garage access passes, are read at a few cm or less and have only a tag id. Reading more than one tag is not supported with those as far as I know but I believe it's an implementation detail not an actual limitation; NFC tags, ISO/IEC 14443, which include MiFARE variants, the Oyster card, those wrist bands popular at events, credit cards, and emulated in phones, are read at a few cm (but under bench top conditions with a moderately large panel antenna I've done it at over half a meter, this is not normal or subtle). These can store more than just an id. They may have fields that can be fully or partially rewritten, counters, authenticated fields, and "burned" fuses setting fields or preventing changes. Some (DESfire, SAM, DUOX, etc.) implement encryption (I've seen DES, 3DES, AES) and some support "Applications" which manage particular data sectors or expose filesystem-like storage. It requires transactional interaction by the software driving the reader to perform operations.
So for your office badge and transit cards they're probably all using NFC and implementing several of the above features. The reader hardware and software driving it expects to perform a specific series of operations on a single card with a known set of fields or applications so it will either reject (if it reads tag id first or can detect it) or fail (I presume interference) when multiple cards are present. -
@Edent apologies for my confusion earlier. I guess I read it incorrectly.
@fbinin it started to be a standard on multiple government issued documents in EU.
It used to be that you needed to fill all the information in some form or someone else filled it for you. Now with NFC chip you just put it on reader and everything is already filled in.
They didn't collect anything different that they collected before, it just saves time.
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@Edent
I had this same problem with my keycards in our datacenter! I originally had two cards on the same lanyard, one for each datacenter, but I was unable to get the readers to accept me. Once I separated them, they each worked properly. -
@sjjh @Edent I'm not an RF Engineer (or any Engineer, really...) but I had several months of hands-on work with it. I'll try to keep the trip down the rabbit hole shallow.
It depends on the type of card, the reader, and the software. RFID is a blanket term for many implementations using different frequencies and types of tags. Considering some common ones that are energized by the reader: UHF tags, used for asset tracking and inventory, signal a tag id and can be read at several meters, the readers will either report multiple tags for reading or return all the tags in range in a go. They're usually designed for durability and quick reads under imperfect conditions; "Proximity" tags in the kHz range, typical of door/gate/garage access passes, are read at a few cm or less and have only a tag id. Reading more than one tag is not supported with those as far as I know but I believe it's an implementation detail not an actual limitation; NFC tags, ISO/IEC 14443, which include MiFARE variants, the Oyster card, those wrist bands popular at events, credit cards, and emulated in phones, are read at a few cm (but under bench top conditions with a moderately large panel antenna I've done it at over half a meter, this is not normal or subtle). These can store more than just an id. They may have fields that can be fully or partially rewritten, counters, authenticated fields, and "burned" fuses setting fields or preventing changes. Some (DESfire, SAM, DUOX, etc.) implement encryption (I've seen DES, 3DES, AES) and some support "Applications" which manage particular data sectors or expose filesystem-like storage. It requires transactional interaction by the software driving the reader to perform operations.
So for your office badge and transit cards they're probably all using NFC and implementing several of the above features. The reader hardware and software driving it expects to perform a specific series of operations on a single card with a known set of fields or applications so it will either reject (if it reads tag id first or can detect it) or fail (I presume interference) when multiple cards are present.@rlonstein not really, I've done a project with a reader that handled ISO/IEC 14443 and 15693, and for both protocols there is collision handling possible: the reader will tell you that more than one tag answered to an inventory scan, and the n there's a defined algorithm to scan with a mask of UID bits so you can find all tags in the field.
My guess is that whoever implemented the gates just lets the read fail if a collision is detected.
@sjjh @Edent -
@rlonstein not really, I've done a project with a reader that handled ISO/IEC 14443 and 15693, and for both protocols there is collision handling possible: the reader will tell you that more than one tag answered to an inventory scan, and the n there's a defined algorithm to scan with a mask of UID bits so you can find all tags in the field.
My guess is that whoever implemented the gates just lets the read fail if a collision is detected.
@sjjh @Edent@peturdainn @sjjh @Edent Cool. I knew it should be possible 😁 The prox card system was not mine and the reader I acquired was cheap and limited (there were somewhat frosty discussions with the building management at the time which is why I looked into it...). For the Skye devices, iirc, this was circa 2013, they did the right thing with reporting multiple tags but for NFC it was unreliable-- not to mention undesirable for our purpose-- to handle more than one MiFARE-style card at once.
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@peturdainn @sjjh @Edent Cool. I knew it should be possible 😁 The prox card system was not mine and the reader I acquired was cheap and limited (there were somewhat frosty discussions with the building management at the time which is why I looked into it...). For the Skye devices, iirc, this was circa 2013, they did the right thing with reporting multiple tags but for NFC it was unreliable-- not to mention undesirable for our purpose-- to handle more than one MiFARE-style card at once.
@rlonstein while this standard is neatly hidden behind swiss francs (ISO) there's this TI application note that spills the details:
https://www.ti.com/lit/an/sloa136/sloa136.pdf
When I wrote 'reader' earlier I meant the RF chip, because this is pretty low level stuff so if your reading equipment doesn't implement it there's no chance you can handle it...
@sjjh @Edent -
@Edent When I was younger (under 18), I remember that generally you can't use egates as a minor. Normally in UK airports I was directed to speak to one of the border control agents instead. But I remember in Canada they never checked. So every single time I entered the country, I would be forced to use the egate even though I knew it would fail (not telling me why but I eventually guessed it was because of my age).
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@Edent GrapheneOS has not been on my radar when I flashed my phone almost three years ago.
Tbh in the past three months they've raised my eyebrows a bit too many times.
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@GrapheneOS but will you unban @Edent? That's the acid test here IMO.
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@GrapheneOS but will you unban @Edent? That's the acid test here IMO.
@mjr @Edent Our team should not be getting personally attacked with name calling and insults because we wrote a sentence saying an encrypted email service is problematic without elaborating beyond that where we said it.
It's enough that that these services use web apps for them to be problematic. When Chrome apps were killed off, Signal didn't turn it into a web app because it would trust the web server to provide the correct code. Matrix, E2EE email, etc. largely get used via web apps.
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@Edent what makes you think it's a "team"? A team implies it's more than one person.
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@LaVi
Hai ragione, ma devo dire che nonostante la retorica di alcuni impresentabili personaggi, mediamente vedo che il comportamento in strada sta migliorando. Purtroppo al contempo aumenta il tasso di motorizzazione ed aumentano dimensione e peso dei veicoli.Ma quel che è più importante è che ora sei a casa e puoi riposare e riprenderti!
@ciccillo @stefano_zan
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@ben several of my normie acquaintances have started newsletters, lamenting the lack of reach of Instagram et al. Added me without permission. And now they regularly share « blog posts » that always try to sell me something at the end (their services, books, seminars, etc.). Cherry on top is that if reply with a thoughtful comment about what they wrote, they rarely write back. It’s all about money money money.
Not surprisingly, none of them are on the Fediverse.
The cultural divide is so stark
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@LaVi
Uh! Da stamane! Luuuunga giornata al pronto soccorso, quindi.Se non ti conoscessi, ti suggerirei di distrarti studiando l'esperanto.
Ma conoscendoti, ti suggerirò di distrarti approfondendo la conoscenza dell'interlingua. 😉Cominciamo, come renderesti "rimuginare" in interlingua 😆.
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Per uno sguardo un mondo;
Per un sorriso un cielo;
per un bacio… https://cctm.website/gustavo-adolfo-becquer-spagna/Gustavo Adolfo Bécquer
da Rime, 1868
#gustavoadolfobecquer #bacio #poesia #cctmwebsite #anoipiaceleggere #leggere
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@kellyromanych ooh, the contrasts are great!
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@jwz I would be happy if they just fixed memory leak issues and be faster than chrome
