A woman sues her insurance company for terminating her disability benefits.

[mjd@mathstodon.xyz]

@marshray I wonder if that will help get them off the hook. If not, it shows that they were aware that what they were doing could be a problem.

[gyrosgeier@hachyderm.io]

@falcennial @mjd I mean, because running an AI model is called "inference."

[mjd@mathstodon.xyz]

@falcennial @GyrosGeier They're all closely related. They're from the Latin verb “to twist”.

[jonoleth@mastodon.social]

@divVerent @mjd ChatGPT is not a person, which is why ChatGPT is not being sued. OpenAI sells a tool that gave her legal advice, and they certainly didn't say anywhere that it's actually just a "fancy random text generator"

[mjd@mathstodon.xyz]

@divVerent Except that there are laws against providing bogus legal advice to people, to prevent exactly this sort of situation.

And, as you pointed out, it was OpenAI, not ChatGPT, providing the advice.

[infoseepage@mastodon.social]

@mjd Nope, I don't know the particulars of the case, but I do have some experience with the ruthlessness of insurance companies when it comes to disabled people, including a friend who went blind from cancer as a child and another who was born with severe cerebral palsy.

[falcennial@mastodon.social]

@mjd @krupo that MIT article demonstrated 5% of AI implementations are profit making. 95% are loss making. so when the investment goldrush mania ends or winds down, 95% of invested amounts will be wiped out. it's billions so it will have a disruptive and negative economic effect that I think we will likely experience as recession. and then that 5% of profit making implementations will be what carries forward, with further investment being modelled on those (anyone can do that right now).

[sabik@rants.au]

@divVerent @mjd
If ChatGPT misinformed her, that's not very useful

[divverent@social.vivaldi.net]

@jonoleth @mjd Pretty sure it's common knowledge that LLMs are nothing but random text generators.

OpenAI is a company, not a person. From what I understand, the law banning unlicensed legal advice bans _persons_ and gives them a penalty for doing so anyway.

But OpenAI, being a company, cannot commit crimes (after all, how to put a company in prison?). Only the employees can. So the question is which concrete employee committed a crime there. (Yes, some say companies _can_ commit crimes, but then solve the problems by making an employee / owner / ... actually criminally liable - but then they are the ones who have committed the crime)

The question is rather, have any employees of OpenAI committed a crime there? If any employee at OpenAI _knew_ that it tries to give legal advice, and did not implement any countermeasures, then that employee has committed a crime. That's the case no matter how the "random text generator" works.

If someone tries to get legal advice out of a magic 8-ball, AND the company producing the 8-ball does not implement any countermeasures (such as writing in the manual that responses it gives cannot be used as legal advice), then they can potentially be held liable. Except that in case of a mechanical device that works strikingly like a die it may not be necessary to put such a disclaimer ;)

[divverent@social.vivaldi.net]

@sabik @mjd As said, that's between her and OpenAI, and does not involve the insurance company.

First of all she should be held liable for those vexatious filings.

[mjd@mathstodon.xyz]

@divVerent @jonoleth If you're aware of any specific Illinois caselaw that's on point here, I'd be interested to hear about it. But if you're just a nonlawyer making stuff up about what you imagine the law to be, please leave me out of the discussion.

[divverent@social.vivaldi.net]

@mjd @jonoleth I am not even American. If in your country machines and companies are "persons" and have human rights that have priority over the human rights of _humans_, then your whole country is wrong. What's next, voting rights in federal elections for corporations? Second Amendment for AIs?

But yeah, that might indeed be the case.

In my country it is "societas delinquere non potest". A company _cannot_ be defendant of a crime - only the people actually performing the actions can.

But yeah, done here. Let's see what broken new case law will come from Trumpistan.

[sabik@rants.au]

@divVerent @mjd
OpenAI is interfering in the insurance company's contract? Or, at least, that's what they're suing for

[notyourfanboy@kolektiva.social]

@mjd
> They reach a settlement and agree that the suit will be dismissed with prejudice.

It's done, put a fork in it.

[adriano@lile.cl]

@divVerent It's funny how one can use "just" to *just*ify anything. Let's reduce "they hyped their product as «the artificial superintelligence magical clever tool», but didn't even bother adding safety guardrails or disclaimers about output not being legal advice, and now they're getting reamed" as "they're _just_ providing a fancy random text generator to the public."

Or let's not.

@mjd

[wellsitegeo@masto.ai]

@mjd @diazona Though I'm not a lawyer (thank Cthulhu, or belly rubs to it's acolyte Menhit @antipope_cats) I do recall the Scottish courts taking exception to a "vexatious litigant" a while ago. It ended badly for said litigant.

[wellsitegeo@masto.ai]

@falcennial @mjd @krupo
Looking to the foreseeable future, the AI boosters (especially those using AI to write their "opinions") will blame the bubble-burst on the Trump-Bibi War (no, they can't escape the blame) and *it's* crash.
How much are Darien Scheme share certificates worth these days?

[wellsitegeo@masto.ai]

@marshray @mjd
Any dates for the (alleged, legal modesty board) AI legal advice?

What's that, Lassie? You hear the sound of distant hard-drive shredders working overtime?

[wellsitegeo@masto.ai]

@divVerent @mjd "barratry" - that's a term I remember from the Scottish Legal High Heidjuns dealing with a similar "vexatious litigant". I remember looking it up (but not the precise definition).

[wellsitegeo@masto.ai]

@jonoleth @divVerent @mjd

Wait, what?
They *sell* this shit? And charge money for it?

Where the holy cat turds do they find clients? On the Internet?

(No, I've never tried to use an AI.)