From bluesky:
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@cstross typically fatuous assumptions at work here. why should one assume that it takes much more information to describe a million sins than to describe only one? sins generalize with ease. that's why the concept of cardinal sins exists, because sins fall readily into a compact set of abstractions, and all individual sins boil down to "being A (the sinner) willfully injured being B (the victim)" with the rest being incidental detail in the eyes of a Creator who already knows all details of Creation anyway.
@cstross anyway I wouldn't worry about attacking Heaven if I were you, Charlie. God's already dead. Surely you've already been informed...
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@cstross typically fatuous assumptions at work here. why should one assume that it takes much more information to describe a million sins than to describe only one? sins generalize with ease. that's why the concept of cardinal sins exists, because sins fall readily into a compact set of abstractions, and all individual sins boil down to "being A (the sinner) willfully injured being B (the victim)" with the rest being incidental detail in the eyes of a Creator who already knows all details of Creation anyway.
@mxchara But sins are committed by sinners! Which implies more than one bit of information per sin. Indeed, there may be mitigating or modifying parameters. Every instance of a sin is unique and must be accounted for separately!
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@mxchara But sins are committed by sinners! Which implies more than one bit of information per sin. Indeed, there may be mitigating or modifying parameters. Every instance of a sin is unique and must be accounted for separately!
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@NuclearOatmeal @cstross Let's assume God operates at 37 °C, since He made man in His image, roughly 310 K, Since God is a perfect being, I'm assuming He's operating close to the Landauer principle limit, so one bit of leads to a divine energy change of something like 2.97e-21 J/bit. Using E = mc² we get that 16.5 solar masses gives an energy target of 1.79e+47 J, so we need roughly (1.79e+47 J) / (2.97e-21 J/bit) ~= 6.03e67 bits of sin to make Him collapse into Himself.
How to sin at that scale in sufficiently short time is left as an exercise to the reader.
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@mxchara But sins are committed by sinners! Which implies more than one bit of information per sin. Indeed, there may be mitigating or modifying parameters. Every instance of a sin is unique and must be accounted for separately!
@cstross I suggest that there's great compressibility of information in this case. how much distinct information is really needed? aren't all murders basically the same crime (cf. Cain murdering Abel)
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@NuclearOatmeal @cstross Let's assume God operates at 37 °C, since He made man in His image, roughly 310 K, Since God is a perfect being, I'm assuming He's operating close to the Landauer principle limit, so one bit of leads to a divine energy change of something like 2.97e-21 J/bit. Using E = mc² we get that 16.5 solar masses gives an energy target of 1.79e+47 J, so we need roughly (1.79e+47 J) / (2.97e-21 J/bit) ~= 6.03e67 bits of sin to make Him collapse into Himself.
How to sin at that scale in sufficiently short time is left as an exercise to the reader.
@NuclearOatmeal @cstross I looked at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(data) hoping to find anything relevant to compare it to, but when you get to those numbers, it gets sort of difficult to find something relevant. :D
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From bluesky:
Posit that to be judged for a sin implies that information about the sin is available to god/jesus.
Information implies entropy implies energy implies mass.
...so you can run an attack on heaven by sinmaxxing so hard Christ converts into a black hole from sheer acquired mass-energy and oneshots God by trapping him in something not even His light can escape from
@cstross It is important to commit sins that have never been attempted before, so that memoization and compression does not obviate the attack vector. If one is not audacious enough to shock God, one risks being reduced to a handful of reference pointers.
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@Uilebheist @cstross gawd Almighty
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From bluesky:
Posit that to be judged for a sin implies that information about the sin is available to god/jesus.
Information implies entropy implies energy implies mass.
...so you can run an attack on heaven by sinmaxxing so hard Christ converts into a black hole from sheer acquired mass-energy and oneshots God by trapping him in something not even His light can escape from
@cstross There are no gods, but they have Mass.
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@cstross I suggest that there's great compressibility of information in this case. how much distinct information is really needed? aren't all murders basically the same crime (cf. Cain murdering Abel)
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@NuclearOatmeal @cstross Let's assume God operates at 37 °C, since He made man in His image, roughly 310 K, Since God is a perfect being, I'm assuming He's operating close to the Landauer principle limit, so one bit of leads to a divine energy change of something like 2.97e-21 J/bit. Using E = mc² we get that 16.5 solar masses gives an energy target of 1.79e+47 J, so we need roughly (1.79e+47 J) / (2.97e-21 J/bit) ~= 6.03e67 bits of sin to make Him collapse into Himself.
How to sin at that scale in sufficiently short time is left as an exercise to the reader.
@Lemmus @NuclearOatmeal @cstross look, you can't say the billionaires and fascists aren't doing *their* part to kill God.
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From bluesky:
Posit that to be judged for a sin implies that information about the sin is available to god/jesus.
Information implies entropy implies energy implies mass.
...so you can run an attack on heaven by sinmaxxing so hard Christ converts into a black hole from sheer acquired mass-energy and oneshots God by trapping him in something not even His light can escape from
@cstross Heaven’s firewalls presumably can convert the raw sins into Gödel numbers, compactifying the information and reducing the entropy accumulation rate down to a safer level.
Failing that, something something holographic principle to limit the entropy density to a lower dimension than that currently immanently occupied.
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@bassthang @mxchara But nobody has just ONE sin! Everybody has one OR MORE sins. So you actually need a vector to encode their sin, one that can accommodate both the nature of the sins and their severity separately. To compare sinfulness of the undeserving one then needs to consider homogeneous matrix transformations …
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From bluesky:
Posit that to be judged for a sin implies that information about the sin is available to god/jesus.
Information implies entropy implies energy implies mass.
...so you can run an attack on heaven by sinmaxxing so hard Christ converts into a black hole from sheer acquired mass-energy and oneshots God by trapping him in something not even His light can escape from
@cstross but by the same argument, the information would already exist in the mortal minds of the sinners, killing them long before any observable effect on jesus could be expected.
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@Lemmus @NuclearOatmeal @cstross look, you can't say the billionaires and fascists aren't doing *their* part to kill God.
@oddhack @NuclearOatmeal @cstross “Every little piece helps,” said the mouse, as she pissed in the ocean. :)
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@oddhack @NuclearOatmeal @cstross “Every little piece helps,” said the mouse, as she pissed in the ocean. :)
@Lemmus @NuclearOatmeal @cstross clearly the answer to sinmaxxing has to involve "AI" at scale, perhaps converting the entire solar system into Evil LLMs (built using Goddamn Processing Units).
I feel there's a thematic linkage here with _The Nine Billion Names of God_. It makes sense if we're in the Mirror Clarkeverse and don't realize it yet. Maybe when Rama arrives and Pete Hegseth shoots it down, matters will become more clear.
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From bluesky:
Posit that to be judged for a sin implies that information about the sin is available to god/jesus.
Information implies entropy implies energy implies mass.
...so you can run an attack on heaven by sinmaxxing so hard Christ converts into a black hole from sheer acquired mass-energy and oneshots God by trapping him in something not even His light can escape from
@cstross https://x.com/bartlebytaco/status/951865301611794434
> it’s catholic canon that in the garden of gethsemane jesus christ saw every sin committed by human beings which means that he watched a guy blasting rope to waluigi hentai and still decided to sacrifice himself for humanity. absolute legendSo you also wind up causing that black hole to appear in 33 AD, thus creating a temporal paradox!
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@bassthang @mxchara But nobody has just ONE sin! Everybody has one OR MORE sins. So you actually need a vector to encode their sin, one that can accommodate both the nature of the sins and their severity separately. To compare sinfulness of the undeserving one then needs to consider homogeneous matrix transformations …
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From bluesky:
Posit that to be judged for a sin implies that information about the sin is available to god/jesus.
Information implies entropy implies energy implies mass.
...so you can run an attack on heaven by sinmaxxing so hard Christ converts into a black hole from sheer acquired mass-energy and oneshots God by trapping him in something not even His light can escape from
god's not looking so 'almighty' now, is he?
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@Lemmus @NuclearOatmeal @cstross clearly the answer to sinmaxxing has to involve "AI" at scale, perhaps converting the entire solar system into Evil LLMs (built using Goddamn Processing Units).
I feel there's a thematic linkage here with _The Nine Billion Names of God_. It makes sense if we're in the Mirror Clarkeverse and don't realize it yet. Maybe when Rama arrives and Pete Hegseth shoots it down, matters will become more clear.
@oddhack @Lemmus @NuclearOatmeal @cstross Surface Detail anybody?
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