when do you usually use the man page for a complex command line tool to answer a question you have?
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i think part of the reason I'm feeling interested in man pages right now even though I rarely use them is that search has gotten so much worse, it's frustrating, and it makes it feel more appealing to have trustworthy sources with clear explanations
@b0rk i highly recommend the tldr program https://tldr.sh/
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@b0rk FWIW, I first write the man page, then the code. Helps me clarify what the user wants, how I will interact with the tool. I then generate the README from the man page.
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when do you usually use the man page for a complex command line tool to answer a question you have? (like git, openssl, rsync, curl, etc)
(edit: no need to say "i use --help then man")
@b0rk man pages can be verbose, so I like the tldr utility that exists that complements those. I'll more likely use -h and tldr in concert to find what I need.
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@b0rk i highly recommend the tldr program https://tldr.sh/
@kgndiue yea I don't use it but I've heard from so many people they like it, seems like a good resource!
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i'm very curious about everyone who says "I'd look there first", if I want to figure out how to do something new I think I'll usually google how to do it rather than look at the man page, and then maybe later look at the man page to look up the details
(I've gotten enough of these answers:
- "I like that man pages don't require changing context"
- "with the man page I know I have the right version of the docs")@b0rk to some degree, it’s a habit that predates googles existence
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@kgndiue yea I don't use it but I've heard from so many people they like it, seems like a good resource!
@b0rk its basically a curated digest of manpages that covers the most use cases. Like a shortcut to a good examples section.
By the way, your zines are awesome and i have deep respect for your ability to communicate deep technical expertise while being welcoming, reassuring and funny.
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@RyanParsley either!
(it's a little hard for me to think about jq because I've completely given up on learning the jq language, but I don't think that has anything to do with the quality of the documentation)
@b0rk are you already familiar with https://tldr.sh/. I don't have it in my workflow, but seems like a neat idea to complement man pages.
Even if you have no interest in using it, perhaps it's existence and what's working there could be useful data.
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@b0rk its basically a curated digest of manpages that covers the most use cases. Like a shortcut to a good examples section.
By the way, your zines are awesome and i have deep respect for your ability to communicate deep technical expertise while being welcoming, reassuring and funny.
@kgndiue aw thank you so much!
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@b0rk are you already familiar with https://tldr.sh/. I don't have it in my workflow, but seems like a neat idea to complement man pages.
Even if you have no interest in using it, perhaps it's existence and what's working there could be useful data.
@RyanParsley yeah! i think 20 people have told me about it today haha, I don't use it either but people tell me all the time that they like it, I think it's an interesting project
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when do you usually use the man page for a complex command line tool to answer a question you have? (like git, openssl, rsync, curl, etc)
(edit: no need to say "i use --help then man")
@b0rk
It used to be --help, and I sometimes still use it (but frustrated from browsers etc. that don't comply to the convention) - no need to state that, but I found something more interesting:
Many tools come with bash completion when installed through a package manager.
So the first thing I really try nowadays is:
- type a few promising characters
- hit TAB
- if unsuccessful, delete some, type some new.
If this won't work, I might try the man page - or a google search, it depends. -
also it just occurred to me that the one time I wrote a command line tool (https://rbspy.github.io/) I didn't write a man page for it, I made a documentation website instead. I don't remember even considering writing a man page, probably because I rarely use man pages
(not looking to argue about whether command line tools "should" have man pages or not, just reflecting about how maybe I personally would prefer a good docs website over a man page. Also please no "webpages require internet")
@b0rk For me I think it's a composite of four things:
* old pre-good-search habits of reading manpages first, which also gives me lots of practice at navigating them.
* I often only want some specific piece of information (eg 'what switch is used for ...') that I can find with a search of the manpage in less
* Internet search has gotten untrustworthy and bad.
* Sometimes I want to see the authoritative 'what the program says' instead of people describing it. -
@RyanParsley either!
(it's a little hard for me to think about jq because I've completely given up on learning the jq language, but I don't think that has anything to do with the quality of the documentation)
@b0rk @RyanParsley any idea what are the main pain points make it hard to learn? "everything is a generator" and how arguments work are two of them it seems
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@b0rk @RyanParsley any idea what are the main pain points make it hard to learn? "everything is a generator" and how arguments work are two of them it seems
@wader not sure, maybe the idea of learning a specialized domain specific language just doesn't feel worth it. Like I've never learned the awk language either
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@wader not sure, maybe the idea of learning a specialized domain specific language just doesn't feel worth it. Like I've never learned the awk language either
@b0rk that makes sense, and same for me about awk, maybe because jq fills that gap for most of my needs. but it you ever need to do lots of adhoc query and transform of semi-structured data i can recommend to learn jq!
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@b0rk that makes sense, and same for me about awk, maybe because jq fills that gap for most of my needs. but it you ever need to do lots of adhoc query and transform of semi-structured data i can recommend to learn jq!
@wader been trying out fx recently and I think it might work bette for mer, we'll see https://cheat.sh/
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i think part of the reason I'm feeling interested in man pages right now even though I rarely use them is that search has gotten so much worse, it's frustrating, and it makes it feel more appealing to have trustworthy sources with clear explanations
@b0rk every time I know I'm going to get on a plane, the first thing I do is download documentation for all the devices/platforms/libraries I'm currently working on, and I always end up having a more productive session in the air than I would on the ground
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when do you usually use the man page for a complex command line tool to answer a question you have? (like git, openssl, rsync, curl, etc)
(edit: no need to say "i use --help then man")
@b0rk For me, it mostly depends on how much I know about the tool and how common/obscure and simple/complex I know the task is.
“How do I save curl output to a file instead of stdout” ==> `tldr`
“A webpage said to use the -U option, what does that mean?” ==> man page
“What even is this?” ==> man page
“I need to use ffmpeg” ==> web search 😶🌫️ -
@wader been trying out fx recently and I think it might work bette for mer, we'll see https://cheat.sh/
@b0rk 👍 good to hear, only used it briefly. happy to answer jq questions if you ever venture into it again
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@b0rk For me I think it's a composite of four things:
* old pre-good-search habits of reading manpages first, which also gives me lots of practice at navigating them.
* I often only want some specific piece of information (eg 'what switch is used for ...') that I can find with a search of the manpage in less
* Internet search has gotten untrustworthy and bad.
* Sometimes I want to see the authoritative 'what the program says' instead of people describing it. -
when do you usually use the man page for a complex command line tool to answer a question you have? (like git, openssl, rsync, curl, etc)
(edit: no need to say "i use --help then man")
If I'm just looking for what command-line option to use to do something I know or assume the tool can do, I'll often go first to the man page and browse down the list to see if I find it. Otherwise, I'll usually start by googling for an example.
I have tldr installed, but I rarely remember to use it.
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