Sup Fedi,
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Where? Oh gosh, I think there was a mailing list that was popular some years back? Maybe one of the ones listed here: https://common-lisp.net/independent-lists
Long ago (like, MC68K era) I seem to recall the low level Macintosh stuff being implemented in Forth (which is sort of like a dialect of a Lisp, maybe more specifically Scheme? My memories in such realms are soooo old, don't quote me on that; since I have probably forgotten more than I once used to know having toiled in such realms.).
@cwebber@social.coop seems more up to date on more recent goings on with Lisp variants than I and has made mention of Guile (https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/) as something more contemporary that was news to me! Chances are, there's a lot of other more recent stuff I am pretty clueless about that others' are exploring and extending.
At least personally, I found the Lisp Machines (e.g. LMI [Lisp Machines International], Symbolics [the first dot com domain!] and to a lesser extent Texas Instruments) that evolved out of MIT's CADR research fascinating! It is possible, though with dubious copyright legality, to run OpenGenera (the Symbolics OS, more or less) on AMD64 hardware running Linux. Those machines, despite their name, ran other languages too, including C compilers and even supposedly had hardware bounds checking! So they weren't exploitable via common buffer overflow stack smashing techniques, supposedly? They were also open, down to their microcode. Contrasted to a lot of contemporary systems with their (U)EFI and BIOS being binary blobs completely obscured from users? A very different world. Apparently a lot of early X Windows bugs were identified and fixed thanks to Lisp Machines. The UNIX Hater's Handbook was largely written by individuals who were supposedly privileged enough to use Lisp Machines users. Such workstations were not inexpensive for their era, I seem to recall some Lisp machines costing in the range of $60,000+ USD, in the 1980s. Also, probably my favorite GPU name ever was for Lisp Machines the: FrameThrower. From Evans & Sutherland (the Sutherland being Ivan Sutherland, of Sketchpad [one of the first GUI systems and probably the first object-oriented programming system] notoriety, and he was also Alan Kay's doctoral advisor IIRC). At toorcon 8, dnm and I were planning to talk more extensively about Lisp Machines and some of the good ideas from a security perspective that seemed to have been lost and or forgotten by others in the ensuing decades; but we kind of got derailed by Captain Crunch getting added to the panel in the 11th hour who hadn't done any prep with us and just kind of talked about whatever he felt like instead. Ah well. If you want a pop culture reference, a Lisp Machine also makes a cameo in the 1985 movie Real Genius where the reclusive Lazlo Hollyfeld hacker archetypal character can be seen with such a thing displaying some pretty groovy graphics!
I dunno about membership! It's probably a little too ad hoc and maybe closer to a TAZ (Temporary Autonomous Zone) paradigm? Though I may be entirely incorrect about that. ^_^@teajaygrey @cwebber @beardie_jamie
Violating your wishes:
> Long ago (like, MC68K era) I seem to recall the low level Macintosh stuff being implemented in Forth
Not quite. The early PowerPC Macs ran OpenFirmware, and it uses Forth for its configuration language. It's not _written_ in it, no.
68K Macs do not use it, and the OS was implemented partly in Object Pascal, not Forth.
> (which is sort of like a dialect of a Lisp,
No, not really. The main things Forth and Lisp share is _not_ using algebraic notation, and typically being partly implemented in themselves... and that's about all, TTBOMK.
> maybe more specifically Scheme?
No. Only in the sense that Scheme is a minimalist sort of Lisp and Forth is also minimalist.
> My memories in such realms are soooo old, don't quote me on that
... sorry...
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@drizzy @pfr this ^^^. It's the most practical way of leveraging list in day to day work, and once you're indoctrinated, you see it everywhere.
And of course https://mitp-content-server.mit.edu/books/content/sectbyfn/books_pres_0/6515/sicp.zip/index.html is a bible for every LISP enthusiast.
@inecas @drizzy @pfr @beardie_jamie
> And of course https://
mitp-content-server.mit.edu/books/content/sectbyfn/books_pres_0/6515/sicp.zip/index.html is a bible for every LISP enthusiast.I replied before seeing this, but I feel it validates my point rather well. :-D
I bailed after the introductory page, which was gobbledegook to me. Seriously, I read fast, I read a lot, and the only book that I bounced off this hard was my first Patrick O'Brian novel, with its over-page-length single sentences.
The only readable comprehensible Lisp book I've seen I could follow is one I never managed to buy on dead tree.
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Sup Fedi,
I want to get indoctrinated into the world of #LISP
I am not a programmer, nor software developer. I am familiar with basic shell scripting and a little bit of C but that's about it.
Where does the internet church of Lisp congregate and how do I become a member?
Please boost
Thanks> Where does the internet church of Lisp congregate
If anywhere, Hacker News. :-)
It's owned by Paul Graham, one of the most famous Lisp advocates.
https://paulgraham.com/avg.html
HN is implemented in his dialect of Lisp, called Arc. (On top of Steel Bank Common Lisp.)
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The illuminated ones also recommend learning Emacs first. I have tried. Repeatedly. I find it totally impenetrable, too. The only things that helped at all in any way were the excellent macOS version, Aquamacs, now sadly effectively moribund:
And for non-Mac-users, the mad guru of this stuff, Xah Lee, who created ErgoEmacs:
It makes GNU Emacs kind of usable, but, for the Enlightened Ones, you're getting to know an impure, polluted vision.
But it's comprehensible. May work for you.@lproven @drwho @beardie_jamie I suppose I should look at Emacs. But I'll always be a vim user 😉
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@inecas @drizzy @pfr @beardie_jamie
> And of course https://
mitp-content-server.mit.edu/books/content/sectbyfn/books_pres_0/6515/sicp.zip/index.html is a bible for every LISP enthusiast.I replied before seeing this, but I feel it validates my point rather well. :-D
I bailed after the introductory page, which was gobbledegook to me. Seriously, I read fast, I read a lot, and the only book that I bounced off this hard was my first Patrick O'Brian novel, with its over-page-length single sentences.
The only readable comprehensible Lisp book I've seen I could follow is one I never managed to buy on dead tree.
@lproven @drizzy @pfr @beardie_jamie Yes, it's not a light reading, and much more about the concepts on how (no only) lisp is implemented, rather than just use it. But the question was about the church of Lisp, and needs to be mentioned as one of the holy books. And once one gets over the initial bar, it's actually quite eye-opening.
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Sup Fedi,
I want to get indoctrinated into the world of #LISP
I am not a programmer, nor software developer. I am familiar with basic shell scripting and a little bit of C but that's about it.
Where does the internet church of Lisp congregate and how do I become a member?
Please boost
Thanks@pfr I think Land of Lisp is still a good introduction https://nostarch.com/lisp.htm
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@lproven @drwho @beardie_jamie I suppose I should look at Emacs. But I'll always be a vim user 😉
You are pretty much going to have to convert.
(I'm neutral: I can't stand either of them, myself. I am still sad nobody got the joke in this headline:
https://www.theregister.com/2021/12/17/tilde_text_editor/ )
There is an Emacs Vi mode called EVIL or VILE or something. I think it's a joke, but this tells you all you need to know about how Emacs folks tend to think about it.
For reference, this will tell you a _lot_ about Emacs and indeed Lisp:
https://web.stanford.edu/class/cs81n/command.txt
It's why I tried to learn it. IMHO you _NEED_ to read this.
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@lproven @drizzy @pfr @beardie_jamie Yes, it's not a light reading, and much more about the concepts on how (no only) lisp is implemented, rather than just use it. But the question was about the church of Lisp, and needs to be mentioned as one of the holy books. And once one gets over the initial bar, it's actually quite eye-opening.
@inecas @drizzy @pfr @beardie_jamie
I have a vision of myself as a toddler, not tall enough to quite reach that bar you mention, so I can't _quite_ see over it.
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@inecas @drizzy @pfr @beardie_jamie
> And of course https://
mitp-content-server.mit.edu/books/content/sectbyfn/books_pres_0/6515/sicp.zip/index.html is a bible for every LISP enthusiast.I replied before seeing this, but I feel it validates my point rather well. :-D
I bailed after the introductory page, which was gobbledegook to me. Seriously, I read fast, I read a lot, and the only book that I bounced off this hard was my first Patrick O'Brian novel, with its over-page-length single sentences.
The only readable comprehensible Lisp book I've seen I could follow is one I never managed to buy on dead tree.
@lproven @inecas @drizzy @beardie_jamie lol, the land of lisp looks awesome!
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Sup Fedi,
I want to get indoctrinated into the world of #LISP
I am not a programmer, nor software developer. I am familiar with basic shell scripting and a little bit of C but that's about it.
Where does the internet church of Lisp congregate and how do I become a member?
Please boost
Thanks@pfr Welcome! I suggest the resources on the Common Lisp Cookbook: https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/
Check its editors page. ICL is a sane REPL for the terminal and the browser that allows to write and run some code.
The community is very much on /r/lisp and Discord (https://discord.gg/hhk46CE)
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Sup Fedi,
I want to get indoctrinated into the world of #LISP
I am not a programmer, nor software developer. I am familiar with basic shell scripting and a little bit of C but that's about it.
Where does the internet church of Lisp congregate and how do I become a member?
Please boost
Thanks@pfr If you are interested in Lisp I recommend learning it as a long term project. It's worth giving a good look to both Common Lisp and Scheme so that you can decide what you like.
As for where Lispers congregate, if you prefer forum platforms you may have a look at this new community:
Feed RSS
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@las_lallero La modella inglese (?). Boh tipo mai vista. Sono vecchio? 👴🏻
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Il Canada compra Europeo, nella difesa.
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I have just committed the AGCM contact details to the global campaign page @keepandroidopen
Many other European countries do not yet have local information available.
From September 2026, it will no longer be possible to develop apps for the Android platform without first registering centrally with Google.
The price will be a lack of any competition to Google on Android and a direct route to censorship by the United States.
The website describes how to take action against this measure.
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Ho appena fatto commit dei recapiti dell'AGCM alla pagina della campagna globale @keepandroidopen
Molti altri paesi europei non dispongono ancora di informazioni locali.
A partire da settembre 2026 non sarà più possibile sviluppare app per la piattaforma Android senza prima registrarsi presso Google.
Il prezzo da pagare sarà la mancanza di concorrenza su Android e una via diretta verso la censura da parte degli Stati Uniti.
Sul sito si descrive come poter agire contro questo provvedimento.
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#wikiflix è la piattaforma gratuita per vedere oltre 4000 titoli di film ormai liberi.
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#Sanremo SALVATOREEEEEEEEEEEE
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Sto seguendo intervista di Santoro a Piazza pulita.
È uu giornalista che mente sapendo di mentire.
O è un coglione
