English speakers of the fedi.

[mk_rexx@metalhead.club]

@eltonfc @aarbrk ESL here. Did I understood it right, something like "save file" or "undo changes" would be imperative?

[jenesuispasgoth@pouet.chapril.org]

@eltonfc I mean, if by infinitive you mean it has to have "to" on front of the verb ("to save" etc.), then mechanically, the English version is "imperative," while my interpretation is "infinitive" because in French it's translated as such.

If not, then it's infinitive for both.

[unassumingkiwireborn@kolektiva.social]

@eltonfc

Native speaker and I chose imperative because that's what they are: commands issued to the program. But Format is weird here because I read that as a noun, similar to Settings or Preferences.

[machinelordzero@mastodon.social]

@eltonfc Native, imperative. I tell the computer what to do, it does it, else there is a problem.

[r1rail@pouet.chapril.org]

@eltonfc I may be biased, because in French imperative and infinitive are different, and menu entries use infinitive

[dereisenhofer@metalhead.club]

@eltonfc I read it kind of both. Interesting.

[chtixof@mamot.fr]

@aarbrk @eltonfc
IMHO, you wrote it: "to X" ➡️ infinitive 😉

[dveditz@infosec.exchange]

@eltonfc
before GUI we had a "command line interface" where you quite literally gave the computer "commands". How could they be anything other than imperative?

[lritter@mastodon.gamedev.place]

@dveditz @eltonfc a lot of these menu options lead to places though, dialogs. so you're figuratively entering a conversation. a command line rarely does that. your instructions are expected to be complete.

[hiddenalpha@mastodon.social]

@eltonfc
"Format" looks like an outlier. I read it as a noun 🙃

[jubalbarca@scholar.social]

@eltonfc I'm not sure I really read them as either, though infinitive has to be closer I guess. The edit button is The Edit Button, it probably opens the Edit Menu, and so by using it I am not in my brain expressing any view or command about whether I want to edit or am commanding an edit, I am just trying to access or perhaps ascertain that particular software feature which may or may not be tied to what I'd think of as editing.

[brad@1040ste.net]

@eltonfc Depends to some degree - if the menu is hierarchical then non-leaf options or those leading to dialogues (usually marked with an ellipsis) are infinitive and leaf options without an ellipsis are imperative, to me.

[tarmil@mastodon.tarmil.fr]

@R1Rail @eltonfc And it's far from the only situation where English used the imperative and French uses the infinitive. Recipes are another example.

[krnlg@mastodon.social]

@eltonfc
Interesting that I'm (so far) in the minority with Native+Imperative. But when learning (badly, in school) French the main thing that never entirely clicked for me was the whole "To Do", "To Read" thing as an actual word form so maybe I just don't get something fundamental here 🙂

[rc_1290@mastodon.gamedev.place]

@eltonfc Yes

[rc_1290@mastodon.gamedev.place]

@eltonfc also, it's more and more likely to have a machine translation, in which case the answer is "poorly".

[krnlg@mastodon.social]

@eltonfc
To me, the menu item is moooostly a command to do the thing or open the dialog. There is an element of "I click this to do the thing" but it doesn't feel like a separate thing to me, it doesn't really feel like different grammar at all. And the menu options don't say "To Format" so it doesn't mean "To Format".

As you might guess, I never really "got" grammar at school even in English classes 🙂

[feyter@mastodon.gamedev.place]

@eltonfc I don't know if I speak English at all, because I have no idea what imperative or infinitive should mean in that context 😅

[sarajw@front-end.social]

@eltonfc Oooooo.

I come from the generation in Britain that wasn't formally taught any advanced grammar in our native language.

I *think* I go by imperative. I will answer the poll in that way shortly.

But also, these menu items are so abstracted, and often shown with only a symbol, that I often don't think of them with the meanings of the words, really.

Save: I won't lose my work.
Open: browse through my folder structure to find what I want.
Close: "I don't want this"

[sarajw@front-end.social]

@eltonfc oddly if I am thinking about software in German, I think I expect the infinitive 🤔