For no particular reason, I am thinking about the practice of Debate, as it is popularly understood, today.
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For no particular reason, I am thinking about the practice of Debate, as it is popularly understood, today. One good starting point is here: https://bsky.app/profile/joestieb.bsky.social/post/3lypywex7c22r
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For no particular reason, I am thinking about the practice of Debate, as it is popularly understood, today. One good starting point is here: https://bsky.app/profile/joestieb.bsky.social/post/3lypywex7c22r
There is currently a popular understanding that “debate” in the context of academia is a practice of intellectual MMA, where two people enter the Marketplace Of Ideas, and only one leaves.
This is counterfactual to what “debate” actually *is* in college, which is a club you go to in order to learn how to spot bullshit.
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When you participate in a refereed debate, according to actual rules and stuff, you are often *assigned* a position. You do not take your own convictions and defend them by annihilating your opponent with Facts and Logic, you search for evidence and construct arguments and build a case in a position that *you may or may not agree with*, to illustrate how it is possible to build really good debate performances around ideas *you believe are wrong*.
Talk to anyone who participated in National Speech & Debate or some similar organization. Ask them what they think of the current crop of intellectual “debaters”, particularly the ones who tour college campuses. Their attitude is basically that of someone who doesn’t like pro wrestling talking about pro wrestling.
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There is currently a popular understanding that “debate” in the context of academia is a practice of intellectual MMA, where two people enter the Marketplace Of Ideas, and only one leaves.
This is counterfactual to what “debate” actually *is* in college, which is a club you go to in order to learn how to spot bullshit.
When you participate in a refereed debate, according to actual rules and stuff, you are often *assigned* a position. You do not take your own convictions and defend them by annihilating your opponent with Facts and Logic, you search for evidence and construct arguments and build a case in a position that *you may or may not agree with*, to illustrate how it is possible to build really good debate performances around ideas *you believe are wrong*.
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It’s fake, it’s rigged, it is *obviously* fake & rigged if you know what the actual rules of the sport are supposed to look like, and it is *extremely* embarrassing that elected officials find this sort of communication convincing or valuable.
More people need to be taught formal rhetoric and participate in actual debate clubs so that we can increase understanding that the fraudulent presentation of “debates” can be ignored and dismissed as they should be, rather than misleading elected officials with what amounts to freshmen-level stage magician rhetorical tricks.
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Talk to anyone who participated in National Speech & Debate or some similar organization. Ask them what they think of the current crop of intellectual “debaters”, particularly the ones who tour college campuses. Their attitude is basically that of someone who doesn’t like pro wrestling talking about pro wrestling.
It’s fake, it’s rigged, it is *obviously* fake & rigged if you know what the actual rules of the sport are supposed to look like, and it is *extremely* embarrassing that elected officials find this sort of communication convincing or valuable.
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More people need to be taught formal rhetoric and participate in actual debate clubs so that we can increase understanding that the fraudulent presentation of “debates” can be ignored and dismissed as they should be, rather than misleading elected officials with what amounts to freshmen-level stage magician rhetorical tricks.
@glyph you can even have some fun with it. I once rolled into a debate competition hung over and with no prior debate experience with my also hung over partner at the time, formed a debate team with two other like minded hung over people we found, and took second. we lost to the team that took first because it's really hard for a mostly male appearing team to beat an emotional appeal from four young cis women arguing against their own bodily autonomy
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@glyph you can even have some fun with it. I once rolled into a debate competition hung over and with no prior debate experience with my also hung over partner at the time, formed a debate team with two other like minded hung over people we found, and took second. we lost to the team that took first because it's really hard for a mostly male appearing team to beat an emotional appeal from four young cis women arguing against their own bodily autonomy
@glyph I've never really felt the need to watch political debates after that. I know the score.
Also iirc my roommate's team of well practiced debaters who practiced for the debate took 4th and he was so mad lol.
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@glyph I've never really felt the need to watch political debates after that. I know the score.
Also iirc my roommate's team of well practiced debaters who practiced for the debate took 4th and he was so mad lol.
@aeva it really doesn't take much experience for most people to understand what's going on. I would say most people wouldn't figure out the whole game on their *first* outing, but it doesn't take long :)
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@aeva it really doesn't take much experience for most people to understand what's going on. I would say most people wouldn't figure out the whole game on their *first* outing, but it doesn't take long :)
@glyph my strat was to make sure every person on my team had a different set of non-contradictory talking points to focus on
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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Global sumud flotilla: le barche italiane lasciano la costa siciliana alla volta di gaza, “buon vento”
@anarchia
Sono salpate, alla volta di Gaza, le imbarcazioni italiane della Global Sumud Flotilla dal porto siciliano di Augusta. Sono 18 le barche al momento, partite dalle coste siciliane questo sabato 13 settembre, che si uniranno in mare https://www.rivoluzioneanarchica.it/global-sumud-flotilla-le-barche-italiane-lasciano-la-costa-siciliana-alla-volta-di-gaza-buon-vento/
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@aeva "We shall put this river in a box and then everything's fine!"
Cue decades of flooding.
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@ataylor nothing a liberal application of hubris can't pretend to fix
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@aeva I mean, we already see similar issues with geographic borders. Especially rivers, because rivers really don't like to stay put.
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it's a good thing countries are pretty short lived geologically speaking otherwise plate tectonics would cause a lot of problems
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@kevingranade they did eventually redefine the kilogram as something other than robespierre's evaporating left nut at least
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@luana I figure the smaller the city the lower the odds you end up with grosstopically overlapping structures, legally speaking
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@aeva at least all the measurement units are nailed down.
https://www.nist.gov/pml/us-surveyfoot
Well, ok it could be worse.
