I deactivated Google Play on my phone.
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I deactivated Google Play on my phone. The electricity company app was the first to be bricked. 'You must update.'
I wrote to them: ’I don’t have Google or Apple. Where else can I update the app?’ Nowhere else, they replied.
I wrote (politely) back: ’I can’t use your app any more then. It’s an odd requirement to make of your customers. A Norlys customer can only access all Norlys services if they are also a customer of one of two specific private for-profit US companies.’
@CiaraNi Ikke presist en "god appoplevelse"! And after a while, updating requires buying a new phone anyway . . .
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I deactivated Google Play on my phone. The electricity company app was the first to be bricked. 'You must update.'
I wrote to them: ’I don’t have Google or Apple. Where else can I update the app?’ Nowhere else, they replied.
I wrote (politely) back: ’I can’t use your app any more then. It’s an odd requirement to make of your customers. A Norlys customer can only access all Norlys services if they are also a customer of one of two specific private for-profit US companies.’
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I deactivated Google Play on my phone. The electricity company app was the first to be bricked. 'You must update.'
I wrote to them: ’I don’t have Google or Apple. Where else can I update the app?’ Nowhere else, they replied.
I wrote (politely) back: ’I can’t use your app any more then. It’s an odd requirement to make of your customers. A Norlys customer can only access all Norlys services if they are also a customer of one of two specific private for-profit US companies.’
@CiaraNi I don't know what OS your phone are running, but some custom androids offer using microG, which solves at least some of the problems with not having google play.
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@raymaccarthy @ThePolishDispatch People keep recommending Revolut to me, particularly in Ireland, it seems to be common there. Every time I say: nope, not a chance, not another app. I use cash and, when unavoidable, my bank card when I travel.
@CiaraNi @raymaccarthy When I first heard about Revolut years ago it seemed like an interesting option for some use cases, but then I learned about their questionable work culture...
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@raymaccarthy @ThePolishDispatch I'm at the Cranky With Big Tech stage where I won't even use a new app to start something and then delete it after setting up. It's time-consuming enough getting away from the ones I already have.
@CiaraNi @raymaccarthy Same! I am very app-allergic. The few I have on my phone have very good reasons to be there.
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@oldrup Der var to valg. At give efter, logge på Google Play og opdatere. Eller at logge ud af Norlys-appen og afinstalle den. Det var et nemt valg. Jeg har fjernet Norlys-appen. Jeg kan bruge websiden fra min PC når jeg er hjemme og har min kodeviser i nærheden.
@CiaraNi Det er et fornuftigt valg. Jeg gør det samme. Benytter mobilen og dens apps hvor mobiliteten vitterlig gør en forskel (podcasts, kort, beskeder) og overlader fjernvameregnskabet, budgettet og e-boks til den store skærm på hjemmekontoret. Kan man kalde det et bevidst valg?
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@jschwart @agturcz @CiaraNi @Gina I've also never faced a smartphone requirement myself, but admittedly I do go out of my way to avoid getting into situations where that might happen, and I'm also perfectly willing to not do things if they would require those devices, just like I simply walk by any store that says "PIN only".
So I guess I'm not the best example case here. Banks are indeed the most problematic, although I do have accounts at four Dutch banks that don't require Android or iOS.
@kevin I have adopted a similar policy. I walk away from digital solutions or companies that want to force an unwanted digital solution on me. Or that refuse to take cash. With an essential service like utilities, I can't not be a customer, but I can and did delete the electricity company's app. I've only ever used a web browser for banking, so have luckily avoided that problem - coercive funtions in banking apps seems to be a big problem for many people.
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@CiaraNi As I am avid user of the non-googled 25yo phone for my daily talks I twice got asked "install app or else go away". They both (bank/telco) caved in when threatened with invoking EU anti-discrimintation laws and reporting them straight to the EC (It was before the 1499/1500 directives even, I was invoking 2019 one IIRC). I wonder whether Denmark anti-discrimination laws can be used to get at the google-happy company demandin customer in EU to use US-based services.
@ohir Interesting thought. I know that services like the public transport travel card (Rejsekort) and the government wwo-factor authentication system (mitID) require non-app alternatives because they can't exclude citizens. I don't know how non-discrimination laws would work for something like a utilities company or banking app.
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@CiaraNi This is all very interesting, and as for many others still the showstopper to buy freely a de-Googled phone.
I think there will be troubles here in Italy for long times, given the subjection that this country has to the US - foraged by the typical inertia.@luc0x61 This is it exactly. It's hard to switch when we've all been locked in by so many companies and national institutions that tell us: 'You must be a customer of specifically Google or Apple in order to access our services'. Given the state of the US these days, at least people are starting to question that, though.
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I deactivated Google Play on my phone. The electricity company app was the first to be bricked. 'You must update.'
I wrote to them: ’I don’t have Google or Apple. Where else can I update the app?’ Nowhere else, they replied.
I wrote (politely) back: ’I can’t use your app any more then. It’s an odd requirement to make of your customers. A Norlys customer can only access all Norlys services if they are also a customer of one of two specific private for-profit US companies.’
@CiaraNi@mastodon.green i once wrote to a banking app, they replied with a LLM generated answer 😑
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@CiaraNi Ikke presist en "god appoplevelse"! And after a while, updating requires buying a new phone anyway . . .
@timtfj Ha yes, that line made me snicker. 'To give me a good app experience' my arse, if you'll excuse the Irishism. Same as my Mac that I've refused to update for over a year and that keeps telling me to update 'to increase your productivity and give you a better experience!"' Yeah, right, more non-consensual AI, you mean.
And oh yes, that 'your phone is too old, you must update' move is a scandal. All that e-waste, if people update their phones just to access an app.
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I deactivated Google Play on my phone. The electricity company app was the first to be bricked. 'You must update.'
I wrote to them: ’I don’t have Google or Apple. Where else can I update the app?’ Nowhere else, they replied.
I wrote (politely) back: ’I can’t use your app any more then. It’s an odd requirement to make of your customers. A Norlys customer can only access all Norlys services if they are also a customer of one of two specific private for-profit US companies.’
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@CiaraNi I don't know what OS your phone are running, but some custom androids offer using microG, which solves at least some of the problems with not having google play.
@anderslund Godt at vide, tak for forslaget. I'm adopting the contrary method for now. If I can't access an app without Google Play, I will delete the app and use their website. I wasn't a big app fan in the first place, so I only have a smaller number of more essential ones, which lessens the hassle when I have to walk away.
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@CiaraNi @raymaccarthy Same! I am very app-allergic. The few I have on my phone have very good reasons to be there.
@ThePolishDispatch @raymaccarthy I have had only a shortlist of apps on my phone, and that's getting shortened further since I dropped Google Play.
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@CiaraNi Det er et fornuftigt valg. Jeg gør det samme. Benytter mobilen og dens apps hvor mobiliteten vitterlig gør en forskel (podcasts, kort, beskeder) og overlader fjernvameregnskabet, budgettet og e-boks til den store skærm på hjemmekontoret. Kan man kalde det et bevidst valg?
@oldrup Det har været et bevidst valg hos mig, i hvert fald.
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@CiaraNi@mastodon.green i once wrote to a banking app, they replied with a LLM generated answer 😑
@Stomata That sounds far too typical. I have had a similar experience writing to a bank while logged in to my netbank through my web browser, supposedly writing to my human customer consultant. An AI email was sent back with entirely useless links to their website, no relation whatsoever to the very specific question I'd sent. I am currently corresponding with them about this, but they very dismissively do not care.
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@ekimia I hadn't heard of MicroG until this thread. Thank you for the suggestion. It seems to be a good workaround. In this particular case, I have chosen to delete their app. On principle too - I don't want my electricity company to force me to use Google to access their services, however I get it. It's good to know the option exists though. Thanks.
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@ekimia I hadn't heard of MicroG until this thread. Thank you for the suggestion. It seems to be a good workaround. In this particular case, I have chosen to delete their app. On principle too - I don't want my electricity company to force me to use Google to access their services, however I get it. It's good to know the option exists though. Thanks.
@CiaraNi 98 % of people apps needs GooglePlayServices because the SDK is mainly based on this brick
This is why in order to have a really Libre software Android phones, MicroG had to replace it because we want the average Joe to have most apps working
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@ekimia I hadn't heard of MicroG until this thread. Thank you for the suggestion. It seems to be a good workaround. In this particular case, I have chosen to delete their app. On principle too - I don't want my electricity company to force me to use Google to access their services, however I get it. It's good to know the option exists though. Thanks.
@CiaraNi The path for liberty from #gafam is to move your phone to eOS or similar if it's supported on this list https://doc.e.foundation/devices
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@oblomov @codinghorror I m not sure on the social stigma if it is just part of the normal tax declaration. Not sure about Italy, but here in Luxembourg we have good parental leave (6month for each parent, paid at up to 5 thirds of the minimum wage) and there is no stigma about it.
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@rapitadaglialieni Intanto con l'aiuto di soben.io ho trovato:
* mogliemammepervocazione.com/la… (pdf diretto: mogliemammepervocazione.com/wp… )
* catholicinspired.com/post/stat…
* religiocando.it/fileXLS/nuovo_…
* chiesadigenova.it/catechistico… (questo non da il permesso di stamparlo)
* wiki.ninux.org/ChiSiamo (ehm, no, questo non credo che c'entri. però era divertente che fosse uscito tra i risultati :D )ci ho dedicato 10 minuti, quindi alla signora potete mettere fuori 2 ore di lavoro :D
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@pol_9000 @codinghorror I did some calculations on the situation in Italy a few years back, and it would have been quite possible for us. I'm not familiar enough with the US situation to speak about there, especially with the federal vs state system, but from a quick look at the federal budget there's something like 4 T$ devoted to social security &c, which would be what, 1.2K$/person/month if it was an UBI?
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@pol_9000 @codinghorror (also if you can act on the tax rates, higher priority should be given to making the rich pay their dues through a solid progressive taxation system, which would incidentally increase the cash flow and make it easier to implement an UBI)
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@alberto_cottica @mora @FlaviaMarzano sono felice che lo starter pack voci di donne sia stato d'aiuto anche ai maschietti 😄
alla fine mastodon è bello ma trovare le persone è a volte un incubo.
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I don't know about an English write-up on how it was done, sorry. Some of its issues can be addressed, but only up to a certain point. The social stigma is unavoidable, AFAICS, and so is the incentive to clandestine employment. It MAY be possible to design the system in a way that it has lower bureaucratic overhead than what it had in Italy, but an UBI still has practically zero overhead.
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@evadm Siamo su Mastodon anche per questo, per valorizzare il grande patrimonio di persone vere che ogni giorno contribuiscono con idee, competenze e passione alla crescita del Fediverse. 🙂
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@rapitadaglialieni @sabrinaweb71 non c'è neanche bisogno di alzarsi per andare alla chiesa più vicina
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cat…
però temo che siano divisi in categoria per stazione e non per origine, quindi andare a trovartli tutti è comunque sbattito
(ma potresti provare a chiedere se trovano loro qualcosa di adatto lì dentro, magari?)
