I deactivated Google Play on my phone.
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@ThePolishDispatch @CiaraNi
Revolut can't be used without an App.
An Post Banking has limited counter services without the App.
But PayPal and my Credit card work 100% on the website without an App. Both keep advertising the App, which I have never installed.
Also the daft Credit Card people think adding my account to Google Wallet and adding NFC is more secure.
I only use the CC online & the card lives at home. NFC is disabled. I have no intention of using Google pay/wallet. Or having Apple.@ThePolishDispatch @CiaraNi
Obviously using Revolut to purchase without an app works (virtual card online and optional plastic card for physical shopping. But the App is needed to create the account and manage it or make a payment via IBAN. -
@ThePolishDispatch @CiaraNi
Obviously using Revolut to purchase without an app works (virtual card online and optional plastic card for physical shopping. But the App is needed to create the account and manage it or make a payment via IBAN.@raymaccarthy @ThePolishDispatch I'm at the Cranky With Big Tech stage where I won't even use a new app to start something and then delete it after setting up. It's time-consuming enough getting away from the ones I already have.
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@agturcz @CiaraNi @Gina there is https://www.appdwang.nl/ by @kevin.
At the same time, I haven't ran into a smartphone requirement myself yet in the Netherlands, either generally or blessed by Apple/Google. Such situation would create a problem as I would not have a suitable device.
Especially banks do appear notorious to try to push for this though.@jschwart @agturcz @CiaraNi @Gina I've also never faced a smartphone requirement myself, but admittedly I do go out of my way to avoid getting into situations where that might happen, and I'm also perfectly willing to not do things if they would require those devices, just like I simply walk by any store that says "PIN only".
So I guess I'm not the best example case here. Banks are indeed the most problematic, although I do have accounts at four Dutch banks that don't require Android or iOS.
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I deactivated Google Play on my phone. The electricity company app was the first to be bricked. 'You must update.'
I wrote to them: ’I don’t have Google or Apple. Where else can I update the app?’ Nowhere else, they replied.
I wrote (politely) back: ’I can’t use your app any more then. It’s an odd requirement to make of your customers. A Norlys customer can only access all Norlys services if they are also a customer of one of two specific private for-profit US companies.’
@CiaraNi As I am avid user of the non-googled 25yo phone for my daily talks I twice got asked "install app or else go away". They both (bank/telco) caved in when threatened with invoking EU anti-discrimintation laws and reporting them straight to the EC (It was before the 1499/1500 directives even, I was invoking 2019 one IIRC). I wonder whether Denmark anti-discrimination laws can be used to get at the google-happy company demandin customer in EU to use US-based services.
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I deactivated Google Play on my phone. The electricity company app was the first to be bricked. 'You must update.'
I wrote to them: ’I don’t have Google or Apple. Where else can I update the app?’ Nowhere else, they replied.
I wrote (politely) back: ’I can’t use your app any more then. It’s an odd requirement to make of your customers. A Norlys customer can only access all Norlys services if they are also a customer of one of two specific private for-profit US companies.’
@CiaraNi This is all very interesting, and as for many others still the showstopper to buy freely a de-Googled phone.
I think there will be troubles here in Italy for long times, given the subjection that this country has to the US - foraged by the typical inertia. -
I deactivated Google Play on my phone. The electricity company app was the first to be bricked. 'You must update.'
I wrote to them: ’I don’t have Google or Apple. Where else can I update the app?’ Nowhere else, they replied.
I wrote (politely) back: ’I can’t use your app any more then. It’s an odd requirement to make of your customers. A Norlys customer can only access all Norlys services if they are also a customer of one of two specific private for-profit US companies.’
@CiaraNi Ikke presist en "god appoplevelse"! And after a while, updating requires buying a new phone anyway . . .
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I deactivated Google Play on my phone. The electricity company app was the first to be bricked. 'You must update.'
I wrote to them: ’I don’t have Google or Apple. Where else can I update the app?’ Nowhere else, they replied.
I wrote (politely) back: ’I can’t use your app any more then. It’s an odd requirement to make of your customers. A Norlys customer can only access all Norlys services if they are also a customer of one of two specific private for-profit US companies.’
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I deactivated Google Play on my phone. The electricity company app was the first to be bricked. 'You must update.'
I wrote to them: ’I don’t have Google or Apple. Where else can I update the app?’ Nowhere else, they replied.
I wrote (politely) back: ’I can’t use your app any more then. It’s an odd requirement to make of your customers. A Norlys customer can only access all Norlys services if they are also a customer of one of two specific private for-profit US companies.’
@CiaraNi I don't know what OS your phone are running, but some custom androids offer using microG, which solves at least some of the problems with not having google play.
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@raymaccarthy @ThePolishDispatch People keep recommending Revolut to me, particularly in Ireland, it seems to be common there. Every time I say: nope, not a chance, not another app. I use cash and, when unavoidable, my bank card when I travel.
@CiaraNi @raymaccarthy When I first heard about Revolut years ago it seemed like an interesting option for some use cases, but then I learned about their questionable work culture...
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@raymaccarthy @ThePolishDispatch I'm at the Cranky With Big Tech stage where I won't even use a new app to start something and then delete it after setting up. It's time-consuming enough getting away from the ones I already have.
@CiaraNi @raymaccarthy Same! I am very app-allergic. The few I have on my phone have very good reasons to be there.
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@oldrup Der var to valg. At give efter, logge på Google Play og opdatere. Eller at logge ud af Norlys-appen og afinstalle den. Det var et nemt valg. Jeg har fjernet Norlys-appen. Jeg kan bruge websiden fra min PC når jeg er hjemme og har min kodeviser i nærheden.
@CiaraNi Det er et fornuftigt valg. Jeg gør det samme. Benytter mobilen og dens apps hvor mobiliteten vitterlig gør en forskel (podcasts, kort, beskeder) og overlader fjernvameregnskabet, budgettet og e-boks til den store skærm på hjemmekontoret. Kan man kalde det et bevidst valg?
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@jschwart @agturcz @CiaraNi @Gina I've also never faced a smartphone requirement myself, but admittedly I do go out of my way to avoid getting into situations where that might happen, and I'm also perfectly willing to not do things if they would require those devices, just like I simply walk by any store that says "PIN only".
So I guess I'm not the best example case here. Banks are indeed the most problematic, although I do have accounts at four Dutch banks that don't require Android or iOS.
@kevin I have adopted a similar policy. I walk away from digital solutions or companies that want to force an unwanted digital solution on me. Or that refuse to take cash. With an essential service like utilities, I can't not be a customer, but I can and did delete the electricity company's app. I've only ever used a web browser for banking, so have luckily avoided that problem - coercive funtions in banking apps seems to be a big problem for many people.
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@CiaraNi As I am avid user of the non-googled 25yo phone for my daily talks I twice got asked "install app or else go away". They both (bank/telco) caved in when threatened with invoking EU anti-discrimintation laws and reporting them straight to the EC (It was before the 1499/1500 directives even, I was invoking 2019 one IIRC). I wonder whether Denmark anti-discrimination laws can be used to get at the google-happy company demandin customer in EU to use US-based services.
@ohir Interesting thought. I know that services like the public transport travel card (Rejsekort) and the government wwo-factor authentication system (mitID) require non-app alternatives because they can't exclude citizens. I don't know how non-discrimination laws would work for something like a utilities company or banking app.
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@CiaraNi This is all very interesting, and as for many others still the showstopper to buy freely a de-Googled phone.
I think there will be troubles here in Italy for long times, given the subjection that this country has to the US - foraged by the typical inertia.@luc0x61 This is it exactly. It's hard to switch when we've all been locked in by so many companies and national institutions that tell us: 'You must be a customer of specifically Google or Apple in order to access our services'. Given the state of the US these days, at least people are starting to question that, though.
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I deactivated Google Play on my phone. The electricity company app was the first to be bricked. 'You must update.'
I wrote to them: ’I don’t have Google or Apple. Where else can I update the app?’ Nowhere else, they replied.
I wrote (politely) back: ’I can’t use your app any more then. It’s an odd requirement to make of your customers. A Norlys customer can only access all Norlys services if they are also a customer of one of two specific private for-profit US companies.’
@CiaraNi@mastodon.green i once wrote to a banking app, they replied with a LLM generated answer 😑
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@CiaraNi Ikke presist en "god appoplevelse"! And after a while, updating requires buying a new phone anyway . . .
@timtfj Ha yes, that line made me snicker. 'To give me a good app experience' my arse, if you'll excuse the Irishism. Same as my Mac that I've refused to update for over a year and that keeps telling me to update 'to increase your productivity and give you a better experience!"' Yeah, right, more non-consensual AI, you mean.
And oh yes, that 'your phone is too old, you must update' move is a scandal. All that e-waste, if people update their phones just to access an app.
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I deactivated Google Play on my phone. The electricity company app was the first to be bricked. 'You must update.'
I wrote to them: ’I don’t have Google or Apple. Where else can I update the app?’ Nowhere else, they replied.
I wrote (politely) back: ’I can’t use your app any more then. It’s an odd requirement to make of your customers. A Norlys customer can only access all Norlys services if they are also a customer of one of two specific private for-profit US companies.’
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@CiaraNi I don't know what OS your phone are running, but some custom androids offer using microG, which solves at least some of the problems with not having google play.
@anderslund Godt at vide, tak for forslaget. I'm adopting the contrary method for now. If I can't access an app without Google Play, I will delete the app and use their website. I wasn't a big app fan in the first place, so I only have a smaller number of more essential ones, which lessens the hassle when I have to walk away.
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@CiaraNi @raymaccarthy Same! I am very app-allergic. The few I have on my phone have very good reasons to be there.
@ThePolishDispatch @raymaccarthy I have had only a shortlist of apps on my phone, and that's getting shortened further since I dropped Google Play.
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@informapirata @katttivizzima @aitech Una delle mie descrizioni è "matematto divagatore". Ma appunto torno poi sempre a casa...
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ULTRA🧊BLAST (@ultrakillblast.bsky.social)
https://bsky.app/profile/ultrakillblast.bsky.social/post/3mgn2xxnc4k22
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> gli autori umani non divaghino troppo
io, beh... tendo a divagare in maniera abnorme, eh...
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@katttivizzima se un LLM mi mette una fonte che non esiste continuerò a rivelarlo come tale. Se mi cita una fonte che dice tutt'altro, butto via comunque il testo. (Purtroppo anche molta gente fa finta di citare una fonte ma dice tutt'altro...)
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@informapirata però si spera che gli autori umani non divaghino troppo, o almeno ritornino a bomba al tema iniziale. Credo che gli LLM stiano lavorando su questo, riprendendo il prompt iniziale che dopo un po' si è perso, ma siamo ancora molto indietro.
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@floreana 🤣🤣🤣🤣 sei nel posto giusto!
Apri la finestra e inizia a tirarla alla gente che molti non capiscono le metafore e devono toccare con mano 🙂
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@katttivizzima i software che dovrebbero rilevare l'uso di IA usano euristiche che possono o no funzionare, ne sappiamo qualcosa con Wikipedia (in italiano), che non ammette voci create con l'IA e richiede di indicare se la si è usata per migliorare la prosa lasciando un contenuto "umano". La mia prosa, per esempio, ha troppi incisi per sembrare generata da un LLM, ma visto che sono spesso analitico potrebbe comunque essere scambiata per un lavoro di un computer. @aitech
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@ok hello?
