@glyph Did you quote post something?
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@flyingsaceur I do want to quibble with the end there: you need the money for the equipment and the money for the spare time to log those hours. which in the global north is not a huge deal even across a surprisingly big chunk of the income spectrum, but elsewhere it is still pretty far out of reach
@glyph good point. The willingness to learn and to log the hours requires free time, at least some sort of hardware, and the ability to find and recognize good training material
I wonder what a guerilla OLPC would look like with todayโs piracy and AliExpress though
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@glyph the wheels are gonna fall off enronvidia any day now... any day now... maybe D:
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@glyph having wandered away for a few hours, and coming back to this I'm remembering an observation that I think meshes well with what you're saying: the dot com bubble put a lot of money into improbable everything-websites that made a lot of us go "wow the internet is amazing!" but they were the kinds of things that require a massive burning money pile as fuel (deviantart was the specific example) and are not an inevitable natural emergent consequence of the internet's structure
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@glyph having wandered away for a few hours, and coming back to this I'm remembering an observation that I think meshes well with what you're saying: the dot com bubble put a lot of money into improbable everything-websites that made a lot of us go "wow the internet is amazing!" but they were the kinds of things that require a massive burning money pile as fuel (deviantart was the specific example) and are not an inevitable natural emergent consequence of the internet's structure
@glyph more broadly that discussion was about how hard it is to perfectly clone and replace silos like deviantart and twitter without a money pile, because you run into scalability and moderation problems really fast.
so I feel the question looking forward is less how do we keep personal computers as a tool of liberation going so much as how do we liberate the internet from capital and build suitable alternatives to things we loved about the internet that aren't already low cost to replace
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@glyph more broadly that discussion was about how hard it is to perfectly clone and replace silos like deviantart and twitter without a money pile, because you run into scalability and moderation problems really fast.
so I feel the question looking forward is less how do we keep personal computers as a tool of liberation going so much as how do we liberate the internet from capital and build suitable alternatives to things we loved about the internet that aren't already low cost to replace
@glyph obviously keeping personal computers an open platform is important and there's very real threats to that, but that at least has a set of complex pressures and incentives to limp along
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@glyph obviously keeping personal computers an open platform is important and there's very real threats to that, but that at least has a set of complex pressures and incentives to limp along
@glyph I think another thing is, the history of personal computing and the internet has this ever present undercurrent of corporate greed driving it, but what we're grappling with is there's this gradient where the specific flavor of greed changes into the openly predatory Saturn Devouring His Babies monstrosity we have today. And it probably would have happened a lot sooner, but a lot of groundwork and innovation had to go into developing and refining the greed into what it is today.
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@glyph I think another thing is, the history of personal computing and the internet has this ever present undercurrent of corporate greed driving it, but what we're grappling with is there's this gradient where the specific flavor of greed changes into the openly predatory Saturn Devouring His Babies monstrosity we have today. And it probably would have happened a lot sooner, but a lot of groundwork and innovation had to go into developing and refining the greed into what it is today.
@glyph I think also there's this thing where we have a world wide economic system built around scarcity, and when the fundamental unit of "I put one money into your hand, you put one goods and/or services into mine" doesn't exist anymore things get weird because the only other strats crapitalism has are gambling and rent.
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@glyph Same thing happened with post before. Anarchists were calling it a savior for humanity bridging gaps between countries and social movements, and then it was used to send death threats, organize illegal activity, and facilitate scams... In other words, everything was back to normal.
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Very nicely put - you are articulating something that most of the 'tech critics' on here are missing.
The idea that computer-based technological progress moves society forward was always an illusion. It cannot be our salvation and it is dangerous to our survival to continue thinking this way.
We have deluded ourselves into thinking tech is fundamentally a tool of progress, a tool of democracy, a tool of liberation, a tool of societal wellness and growth. This was projection, and untrue: it is simply a tool of whatever forces govern us as humans.
Unless we liberate ourselves from an underlying vision of status chasing and material exploitation, we will never learn how appropriately use the tools at hand.
It's the invention of firearms all over again, a symptom of a greater unadressed underlying sickness of human civilizational culture that must be treated at the source.
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@tedmielczarek @glyph IBM tried to take back the PC market with the PS2. It was designed by lawyers to be copy-proof, in a proto-DMCA way.
The market just stayed with the old design and continued to improve it.
The lesson of the PC is that antitrust enforcement can freeze a monopoly long enough for progress to take place.
We wouldn't have a public Internet if you still had to lease a 1200 bps Dataphone from the Bell System to get online. Antitrust changed that.
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@glyph I think also there's this thing where we have a world wide economic system built around scarcity, and when the fundamental unit of "I put one money into your hand, you put one goods and/or services into mine" doesn't exist anymore things get weird because the only other strats crapitalism has are gambling and rent.
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@glyph @phocks
"It's not like the "computer industry" did this" - no, e-mail did (and there was usenet as well, though e-mail was the killer app that got everyone online initially), and wasn't invented by any of them (e-mail and usenet both invented by University people), and ever since then the industry has been trying to regain their power, largely successfully (though we still have bastions like the Fediverse). -
@glyph Same thing happened with post before. Anarchists were calling it a savior for humanity bridging gaps between countries and social movements, and then it was used to send death threats, organize illegal activity, and facilitate scams... In other words, everything was back to normal.
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@glyph I think, for us at least, the feeling is more that it 'COULD' have been great. and for a brief moment there, it was.
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@glyph A thing that I take lot of encouragement from is knowing that for every famous moment of change and famous change maker (eg Rosa Parks) there were dozens, if not hundreds of earlier attempts that paved the way for the one time it was successful. I don't need people to visit the house I was born in in 50 years or ask me for advice on unrelated stuff. I am completely happy to be part of one of the hundred earlier attempts that paves the way.
@baconandcoconut@freeradical.zone @glyph@mastodon.social while this is a beautiful sentiment, it of course begs the question, why is any of it necessary to begin with? why do we consistently recognize pain and suffering and then collectively act against our own best interests?
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@glyph
It was a TAZ. Temporary Autonomous Zones happen naturally in spaces where there is no clear social hierarchy for a long enough period, like the Wild West, or the Occupy encampments.They cannot last, as power abhors a vacuum, but while they do, every one that took part is forever changed by that glimpse of freedom and will yearn for the rest of their life, to feel it just one more time.
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@garrwolfdog @glyph True, but the difference is in how far we take the argument of "the man with technology is like an alcoholic with a barrel of wine". The printing press is a Kaczynski style example, while the post is a modern left example (notably, used by Graeber in his internet critique).
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@glyph Well, one of those "few promising ideas" is Free Software, and the continued existence and thriving of the Debian project is a humongous thing we don't need to re-run from scratch.
Back in the 1980s, Free Software was partly a theoretical - there wasn't a fully functional Free OS yet. We have that now, and much more. Debian's software repositories are easily the biggest and most comprehensive software eco-system bar none. Commercial software can't even come close.
This is something that
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@Lucatermite @colpam @brozu @Paoletta1908 @IlCava @uz il risultato del pomeriggio รจ ottimo: pareggio con l'ultima in classifica!
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today my mac prompted me to update my OS to Tahoe.
I don't like liquid glass, anything else worth having?
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@colpam @brozu @Paoletta1908 @fucinafibonacci @IlCava @uz hahaha ... allora non concentrarti anche staseraaaaa ๐ buon pomeriggio sventuraaaaaata ๐
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@Lucatermite @brozu @fucinafibonacci @IlCava @uz io mi sono concentrata sul pomeriggio e non รจ andata bene. Totalmente insoddisfatta. Bah. โซ๐ด ๐ฉ
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@brozu @fucinafibonacci @IlCava @uz concentriamoci su staseraaaa ๐ buon pomeriggio amici โซ๐ต๐
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@mora
Fu un grande del suo tempo, fece cose mirabili, ma sapeva dove viveva e in che epoca.
Provare a tirargli fango mi pare davvero ingeneroso.
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@Lucatermite @fucinafibonacci @IlCava @uz
โ ๐
