@glyph Did you quote post something?
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it's truly amazing what LLMs can achieve. we now know it's possible to produce an html5 parsing library with nothing but the full source code of an existing html5 parsing library, all the source code of all other open source libraries ever, a meticulously maintained and extremely comprehensive test suite written by somebody else, 5 different models, a megawatt-hour of energy, a swimming pool full of water, and a month of spare time of an extremely senior engineer
@glyph But wait! What is this I see in my vibe coded content? Could this be....a fuck off variable? Seriously, people are naming their variables things like "theHTMLDohickey", and those are showing up in "innovative and original" vibe code from LLMs.
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This is something I really struggle w/, I explain to folks you can only get meaningful results of the problem you are trying to solve or something close to it is well or overrepresented in the training set.
Folks often eventually agree and then go onto to argue things that can't possibly logically follow once you accept this.
It is as-if folks see LLM and their brains just turn it into "magic" somewhere along the way.
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@RichiH @bornach @GroupNebula563 @glyph t being what here?
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1. Or maybe the senior engineer would have simply written all the code and it wouldn't have taken that long. Nobody measures this. We don't even know yet if it's a "force multiplier" or a distraction. I've written at length about this phenomenon here: https://blog.glyph.im/2025/08/futzing-fraction.html
2. Or maybe they would have solved the actual social problem instead, i.e. that the original library is insufficiently maintained, rather than rewriting to move the locus of control closer to themselves.
1. We have (for a given value of we, also have). It is. With dragons and foot guns.
2. Great point. One of my favourite techniques for working with LLMs is telling it not to write a thing ๐.
I did enjoy your opening post though.
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1. We have (for a given value of we, also have). It is. With dragons and foot guns.
2. Great point. One of my favourite techniques for working with LLMs is telling it not to write a thing ๐.
I did enjoy your opening post though.
1. [citation needed]. and not like, sarcastically. I have heard this claim from enthusiasts over and over, but itโs always in secret internal discussions where thereโs no methodology (or even results) to evaluate.
meanwhile, in the public scientific record:
https://hackaday.com/2025/07/11/measuring-the-impact-of-llms-on-experienced-developer-productivity/
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1. Or maybe the senior engineer would have simply written all the code and it wouldn't have taken that long. Nobody measures this. We don't even know yet if it's a "force multiplier" or a distraction. I've written at length about this phenomenon here: https://blog.glyph.im/2025/08/futzing-fraction.html
2. Or maybe they would have solved the actual social problem instead, i.e. that the original library is insufficiently maintained, rather than rewriting to move the locus of control closer to themselves.
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@glyph It's pretty good.
Like, consistently better than any of the pre-LSP approaches.
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@glyph It's pretty good.
Like, consistently better than any of the pre-LSP approaches.
@offby1 I am, thus far, pretty disappointed
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@glyph My main experience of pyright is as a less buggy and broken MyPy.
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@glyph My main experience of pyright is as a less buggy and broken MyPy.
@glyph That's damnation by faint praise, though...
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it's truly amazing what LLMs can achieve. we now know it's possible to produce an html5 parsing library with nothing but the full source code of an existing html5 parsing library, all the source code of all other open source libraries ever, a meticulously maintained and extremely comprehensive test suite written by somebody else, 5 different models, a megawatt-hour of energy, a swimming pool full of water, and a month of spare time of an extremely senior engineer
@glyph (I giggled) Worthy meme material ๐ .
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@GroupNebula563 @bornach @RichiH @glyph also it's just called desalination with extra steps, which is already an expensive process, and I think operating salty pipes carries its own batch of problems. It's already nerve-wracking enough running water around tons of computers (eventually every pipe will need to be replaced, or it'll break...)
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it's truly amazing what LLMs can achieve. we now know it's possible to produce an html5 parsing library with nothing but the full source code of an existing html5 parsing library, all the source code of all other open source libraries ever, a meticulously maintained and extremely comprehensive test suite written by somebody else, 5 different models, a megawatt-hour of energy, a swimming pool full of water, and a month of spare time of an extremely senior engineer
@glyph We're getting close to building a table of tasks that 2020s AI is good for, and tasks it's not
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@neurobashing @glyph FWIW Ruff has mostly been waiting for ty to handle multi-file type-aware lint rules. We plan to integrate those bits of ty back into Ruff at some point in this coming year.
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it's truly amazing what LLMs can achieve. we now know it's possible to produce an html5 parsing library with nothing but the full source code of an existing html5 parsing library, all the source code of all other open source libraries ever, a meticulously maintained and extremely comprehensive test suite written by somebody else, 5 different models, a megawatt-hour of energy, a swimming pool full of water, and a month of spare time of an extremely senior engineer
@glyph Psh, I can do it with *only* the full source code of an existing library.
Thatโs called efficiency.
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it's truly amazing what LLMs can achieve. we now know it's possible to produce an html5 parsing library with nothing but the full source code of an existing html5 parsing library, all the source code of all other open source libraries ever, a meticulously maintained and extremely comprehensive test suite written by somebody else, 5 different models, a megawatt-hour of energy, a swimming pool full of water, and a month of spare time of an extremely senior engineer
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@tuban_muzuru I have no idea what point you are trying to make here.
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@neurobashing @glyph FWIW Ruff has mostly been waiting for ty to handle multi-file type-aware lint rules. We plan to integrate those bits of ty back into Ruff at some point in this coming year.
@amethyst @neurobashing to be clear I am not "hating" on it, for what it does it's fine. but without support for mypy plugins it's just useless to me, personally.
I think that pressures in the community given the popularity of astral's tools will probably sunset Zope Interface eventually, at least with its current syntax, so the solution for me will probably, eventually, be that I use ty and stop doing anything fun or interesting with type-check-time verification. Doesn't help *today*, though.
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@amethyst @neurobashing to be clear I am not "hating" on it, for what it does it's fine. but without support for mypy plugins it's just useless to me, personally.
I think that pressures in the community given the popularity of astral's tools will probably sunset Zope Interface eventually, at least with its current syntax, so the solution for me will probably, eventually, be that I use ty and stop doing anything fun or interesting with type-check-time verification. Doesn't help *today*, though.
@glyph of course, and weโre the first ones to say that ty isnโt ready for full time use, we were already behind on getting a beta out. I do think the ty team expects to fill in most of the gaps from mypy plugins before calling it a stable release, though tbh I wouldnโt be surprised if Zope isnโt high on the priority list ๐
That said, for my personal projects I still rely on pyright/pylance for my LSP in VScodium, though I still depend on running mypy in my โmake testโ runs to catch things I didnโt notice in the editor.
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@tuban_muzuru I have no idea what point you are trying to make here.
Pax. I learned Rust from the LLM. Certain principles apply, we correct the errors of compilation, borrowing, whatever appears from cargo test.
I still write the code.
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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Small rubber boots
Kids jumping in the puddles
On the way to school
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@rachel @mttaggart I don't even know how you could parody something like this.
"Corporation removes (don't be evil | we value safety) from their website"... I'd expect that to end with "after their CEO mysteriously vanished and was replaced by Dr Evil".
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"Europe still does not understand what is happening. For them, the war is somewhere the front line, where some clashes take place. They do not understand that in fact the whole of Ukraine today is a potential target. That all the cities are being shelled."
Serhii Zhadan
https://www.dw.com/uk/sergij-zadan-u-nimeccini-evropa-vperto-ne-rozumie-so-vidbuvaetsa/a-76092533
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Corpi invisibili. Abbattere la discriminazione โ conquistare la salute
@anarchia
La scienza moderna si presenta come un sapere universale, capace di descrivere lโessere umano nella sua interezza. Eppure, la sua storia racconta qualcosa di diverso: per secoli la ricerca medica ha costruito le proprie certezze assumendo il corpo maschile come...Vedi l'articolo
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@jwdt@mastodon.social @mttaggart@infosec.exchange Yeah...
In the past, I had joked that Google's "Don't Be Evil" was a warrant canary, but even that is an idealistic idea, implying that there was a large org like that which ever really was "one of the good ones"
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@rachel @mttaggart I think this bugs me in the same way as politicians having stopped pretending to not be cartoonishly evil.
Obviously it's terrible that <entity> is doing bad things, but it felt nicer to live in a world where they felt that they had to lie about it by claiming they weren't doing the bad thing.
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Starting with Deno 2.7, you can now use the Temporal API without the --unstable-temporal flag!
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AIใใใคใใชใๅใใ ใใจใใฎๅฆ่จใๆๅณใใใใชใใฎใฏใๅน็ใฎๅ้กใใใใใฉ(ใใคใใชใใ้ซ็ด่จ่ชใฎใปใใๆ ๅ ฑใฎใใใใ)ใ้ใใ็ถๆ ใฎใใฎใ้ใใ็ถๆ ใซๆปใใใจใใใใใ ใใใใถใไธฆๅAIใซๅฏพใใฆ้ขๅฟใใใฆใชใใฎใใใใงใAIใ็่งฃใใใฐใใใ ใใซใชใใจ้็จๅ จไฝใ้ใใฆใใใใ ใจใใใใ
