@glyph Did you quote post something?
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@xgranade looks like we're gonna find out
@glyph Maybe! Or maybe it'll be like leaded gasoline where we never really are able to trace back which awful things were due to that source of lead and which things weren't because it all gets mixed up in the "heavy metal in head, things bad now" bucket.
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@xgranade to this point I have had kratom users — mostly indirectly, I am not particularly close with any — suggest that I try it because it is "more effective" and "easier to get" than prescription ADHD meds. And I'd definitely be lying if I didn't say I feel a *strong* pull towards believing that. It would be very nice to solve all my problems with a pill or a prompt
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@glyph I never want to cast shade on addicts for being addicted, addictions are fucking awful.
I absolutely will cast shade on addicts *or anyone else* for insisting I should be addicted too, and for transforming all of society around the idea that my being addicted is a good thing.
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@mttaggart unfortunately I have no concept of what "rock bottom" for an LLM user looks like. Step 0 is going to have to be that society stops massively rewarding them with prestige and huge piles of cash first
@glyph Absolutely, but even in that we can make out the general shape of the thing. We know this current model is not economically sustainable by any party. For users, the result will be inability to access models, or paying cripplingly high prices to do so. Option 1 will elucidate their inability to function without the models, and option 2 will impose the kinds of costs that look like rock bottom in other addictions.
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@glyph Absolutely, but even in that we can make out the general shape of the thing. We know this current model is not economically sustainable by any party. For users, the result will be inability to access models, or paying cripplingly high prices to do so. Option 1 will elucidate their inability to function without the models, and option 2 will impose the kinds of costs that look like rock bottom in other addictions.
@mttaggart my suspicion is that when this happens we are going to find out that there is a huge predisposition component. there will be people who say "ah well. guess I'm a little rusty writing unit tests now, but time to get back at it" and we will have people who will go to sleep crying tears of frustration for the rest of their lives as they struggle to reclaim the feeling of being predictably productive again
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@glyph Maybe! Or maybe it'll be like leaded gasoline where we never really are able to trace back which awful things were due to that source of lead and which things weren't because it all gets mixed up in the "heavy metal in head, things bad now" bucket.
@xgranade definitely going to make a killing when I put all this low-linear-algebra steel back on the market
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@glyph I just keep coming back to that LLMs put our brains directly on the inner loop of an optimization algorithm — that's already true to some degree with advertising and social media engagement algorithms, but LLMs tighten that loop even more, and we don't know what that does to brains!
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@mttaggart my suspicion is that when this happens we are going to find out that there is a huge predisposition component. there will be people who say "ah well. guess I'm a little rusty writing unit tests now, but time to get back at it" and we will have people who will go to sleep crying tears of frustration for the rest of their lives as they struggle to reclaim the feeling of being predictably productive again
@glyph Sure, although that first group may be said to be users, but not addicts, if that's the case. My suspicion is that time of use will be a factor there.
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@glyph I just keep coming back to that LLMs put our brains directly on the inner loop of an optimization algorithm — that's already true to some degree with advertising and social media engagement algorithms, but LLMs tighten that loop even more, and we don't know what that does to brains!
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@datarama @xgranade I have other anxiety issues (OCD does not really resonate broadly, but anxiety+ADHD can produce a similar effect) and I sometimes feel waves of INTENSE rage when I open up my Apple TV and it's playing a loud trailer for a show I don't really want to get into, or launch Steam and find that it's forgotten the preference to open to the Library and not Store tab. We need strict regulation for ALL of these attractive "algorithmic" nuisances
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@clew @xgranade I mean with the GPT-5 / r/MyBoyfriendIsAI debacle (which is, I suppose, still ongoing) we saw that sometimes it literally is just _exactly_ love bombing. But there is a pretty significant difference in degree (if not, necessarily, in kind?) with telling the robot to write your CSS for you, rather than telling it to validate your feelings
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@clew @xgranade I mean with the GPT-5 / r/MyBoyfriendIsAI debacle (which is, I suppose, still ongoing) we saw that sometimes it literally is just _exactly_ love bombing. But there is a pretty significant difference in degree (if not, necessarily, in kind?) with telling the robot to write your CSS for you, rather than telling it to validate your feelings
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@xgranade looks like we're gonna find out
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@glyph I just keep coming back to that LLMs put our brains directly on the inner loop of an optimization algorithm — that's already true to some degree with advertising and social media engagement algorithms, but LLMs tighten that loop even more, and we don't know what that does to brains!
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@fnohe @glyph With advertising, a company is presumably trying to make numbers go up by intervening in a process (in the causal inference sense) that includes your brain. They're generally prevented by the limited choice of hypothetical interventions, though, each of which has to be written or made by a person.
For social media, that can be shortcutted dramatically by selecting existing posts to show you.
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@fnohe @glyph With advertising, a company is presumably trying to make numbers go up by intervening in a process (in the causal inference sense) that includes your brain. They're generally prevented by the limited choice of hypothetical interventions, though, each of which has to be written or made by a person.
For social media, that can be shortcutted dramatically by selecting existing posts to show you.
@fnohe @glyph
For an LLM chatbot, they don't even need that. New interventions can be emitted programmatically, and your "engagement" with the chatbot measured as a result of those interventions.We don't really know what that does to brains, what effectively letting an LLM fuzz our personalities looks like as a mass psychological experiment.
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@datarama @xgranade I have other anxiety issues (OCD does not really resonate broadly, but anxiety+ADHD can produce a similar effect) and I sometimes feel waves of INTENSE rage when I open up my Apple TV and it's playing a loud trailer for a show I don't really want to get into, or launch Steam and find that it's forgotten the preference to open to the Library and not Store tab. We need strict regulation for ALL of these attractive "algorithmic" nuisances
Those attention disruptions infuriate me in that way, too. How dare that thing forcibly point my attention at something I specifically want to not look at. 😤
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@semanticist @glyph it got restricted here along with the rest of the "New Psychoactive substances" (which do have short term beneficial effects, but tolerance and compulsive usage patterns arrive very quickly).
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@glyph The addictive behavior isn't new, I've flagged it before. There is also a reason the meetup is called Claude Code Anonymous. What puzzles me is how dismissive people still are of LLMs, despite the mounting evidence to the contrary. I thought at this point we would be past that.
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@evadm come sarebbe bello se l'UE avesse il coraggio di vietare FB, IG, X, TT, Reddit e YT su tutto il territorio europeo per TUTTI, senza il nonsense delle carte d'identità per provare la maggiore età. Non abbiamo davvero bisogno di social centralizzati sotto una corporation. Ahimè, non accadrà mai
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@peterkotrcka Maledetta Primavera...oh, memories...
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For my official italian practice, I did a cover of Maledetta Primavera.
I owe an apology to every single italian out there..
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Sono passati 3 anni. Giustizia per le vittime del naufragio di #Cutro - Amnesty International Italia https://www.amnesty.it/giustizia-per-le-vittime-del-naufragio-di-cutro/
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Oltre lo specismo. Il cammino verso la liberazione totale
@anarchia
“mangiare carne è qualcosa che fai al corpo di qualcunǝ altrǝ senza il suo consenso” Pattrice Jones (Fighting Cocks. Ecofeminism vs. sexualized violence, 2011) Era il 1792 quando Mary Wollstonecraft, della quale si è parlato https://www.rivoluzioneanarchica.it/oltre-lo-specismo-il-cammino-verso-la-liberazione-totale/
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Stanno inonando a sciame i social di agenti IA con l'unico scopo di creare polarizzazione.
L'evoluzione dei bot, gli agenti IA sono ancora più raffinati, rispondendo e agendo - appunto - con una personalità divisiva.
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#persone #rider #caporalato #sfruttamento #schiavitù #lavoro
Quattro mie vignette negli anni.
Molte qui: https://maurobiani.it/tag/riders/
