Hot take: looking for a single silver-bullet Discord replacement is solving the wrong problem.

[elexia@catcatnya.com]

@xgranade that's what we used to have. don't understand why after a few years of discord this is suddenly horrid and something that "non-technical users can't be expected to be able to use". "non-technical users" did that for over a decade prior. probably including some of the folks that now tell us it's impossible to expect anyone to not sell their soul and firstborn child for a supposedly simpler to use everything app.

[sophie144p@mastodon.catgirl.cloud]

@xgranade I like what you have to say on this and it changed my perspective on it, thanks for putting it into words.

[apophis@kill-corporations.enterprises]

@xgranade the everything app is the online company town

[daedalouseros@hollow.raccoon.quest]

@xgranade@wandering.shop the worst part is: Stoat has all the same major features save video calls and screen share. But that won't matter to most people, because it's "not quite there yet." The solution is staring them in the face, it's just not getting done fast enough for the average person.

[dragonfi@social.jsteuernagel.de]

@reflex @xgranade

Interesting. I wonder why non-tech people would have issues with multiple apps though. If at anything, it would be a better UX metaphor to their day to day life. (My personal experience is that making them use the device itself is the hard part.)

In my house:
everything -> computer

In my grandmother's house:
call someone -> phone
watch a video -> TV
take notes -> pen and paper
solve a puzzle -> puzzle magazine
look up a recipe -> recipe book
look at photo of grandkids -> album book

[tiotasram@kolektiva.social]

@Canageek @xgranade Zulip seems reasonable FWIW. I use it for classroom stuff (I'm not the main person responsible) and it seems reasonable for the chat side of Discord.

[raffkarva@sunny.garden]

@Canageek

I recommended having a look at SimpleX. Open source; option to self host; chat rooms with message playback. No emails, phone numbers, or randomly applied usernames, therefore fully anonymous. P2P and group E2EE (video) calls.

I haven't self hosted it (yet), but using SimpleX and Flux infrastructure has been a breeze so far.

@xgranade

[jadedblueeyes@tech.lgbt]

@Canageek @xgranade FWIW on desktop you can just use multiple container tabs / profiles / etc, and mobile is getting multi-account in at least a couple clients (eg. behind a lab in element x)

[morningsong@weirder.earth]

@xgranade I deeply, DEEPLY miss pidgin. Because it could do both. It could talk to your friends on AIM. It could talk to your friends on MSN. It could talk to your friends on yahoo. You had everything in one place. You didn't have to compromise.

[kat_cal2@ck.catwithaclari.net]

@xgranade@wandering.shop that's not the point
the point is that there are several important defining features in discord that no functional project has replicated because everyone wants to copy whatsapp instead

[valk@social.treehouse.systems]

@xgranade That’s what I do now, different people on different apps. The problem isn’t that none of the apps do enough of discord’s weird secondary features, it’s that they do not replace discord’s core functionality in a way that works for the kind of people i communicate with on discord at all.

[flesh@transfem.social]

@kat_cal2@ck.catwithaclari.net @xgranade@wandering.shop I don't feel that's quite true, though I would ask what these particular features are.

[kat_cal2@ck.catwithaclari.net]

@flesh@transfem.social @xgranade@wandering.shop the most important thing that i want from a replacement is the structure of servers; not group chats, but the whole deal, with the division into channels (especially now with the extra channel types but that's not that important) and roles with permissions.

[flesh@transfem.social]

@mr_daemon@untrusted.website @xgranade@wandering.shop I'm curious how you'd draw the distinction between "decentralised" and "federated with a hearty dose of data sovereignty".

[mr_daemon@untrusted.website]

@flesh Sure! Decentralized implies some amount of peer to peer with no central authority at all, federation implies one or many central authorities _that I can have control over_, or self-host, where I have control over the data. Where it lives, what's done with it, how it is backed up etc.

It basically moves the "authoritative node" one level up in the hierarchy, instead of keeping it at the individual level.

Basically, I am ok with one or more central servers being part of the equation, as long as it possible for me to be in control of one, more or less.

@xgranade

[flesh@transfem.social]

@kat_cal2@ck.catwithaclari.net @xgranade@wandering.shop That is a pretty important defining feature, yeah. I think a few projects attempted it, but I'm not too aware of the state of the field right now.

[flesh@transfem.social]

@mr_daemon@untrusted.website @xgranade@wandering.shop Ah, I see. Some would consider that a decentralised model as well, but I see the reason for your distinction now. Thanks.

[reflex@retrogaming.social]

@dragonfi @xgranade Because they grew up with those their whole life and there aren't nearly as many of them. On my phone there are 22 different messaging apps of one sort or another, each with their own UI/UX, some radically different. Most didn't exist 20 years ago.

And that's just one type of interaction. Now repeat for streaming, photos, shopping, etc.

It's a lot even for those of us who are used to it.

And then there are the unique logins for each...

[iamada@tech.lgbt]

@xgranade Discord was best when it was just chat & vc for gamers. Felt like such a step up from teamspeak/mumble/ventrillo at the time :/

[kkarhan@infosec.space]

@xgranade @iamada granted, people traded convenience for independence.