Hot take: looking for a single silver-bullet Discord replacement is solving the wrong problem.
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@Canageek I've heard advice against partially federating (e.g. blocking some instances but not others from using federation endpoints) as that can cause rooms to get into inconsistent and malformed states, but I've not seen any advice to the effect that disabling federation *entirely* is bad? Perhaps I'm missing something, though.
@xgranade hmm. this makes me think federation beyond oath / user profiles is an anti-feature for these use cases 😬 (these use cases: closed-door and smallish open-door interest-specific communities having mostly unthreaded, chat-like conversations)
the best experiences i've had on Discord were on servers with firm moderation. reading your post, i realized moderation of a federated chat room can only be as good as the weakest popular instance. defederate that instance and you end up with malformed chat; keep them, and you have to accept their weak moderation.
i'd rather be in a room where moderators try to apply themselves more consistently, and if i don't like their room then i'd rather find a different room on a different server than end up in a space that overlaps with their mess.
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@xgranade hmm. this makes me think federation beyond oath / user profiles is an anti-feature for these use cases 😬 (these use cases: closed-door and smallish open-door interest-specific communities having mostly unthreaded, chat-like conversations)
the best experiences i've had on Discord were on servers with firm moderation. reading your post, i realized moderation of a federated chat room can only be as good as the weakest popular instance. defederate that instance and you end up with malformed chat; keep them, and you have to accept their weak moderation.
i'd rather be in a room where moderators try to apply themselves more consistently, and if i don't like their room then i'd rather find a different room on a different server than end up in a space that overlaps with their mess.
@tojikomori I've long said that moderation on Discord is best-in-class. I do think good moderation with federation is entirely possible, but it's much more challenging than moderating something centralized.
In the case of Matrix, part of the problem is that a room administrator has comparatively few tools for blocking bad homeservers as compared to selective defederation on the fediverse.
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@tojikomori I've long said that moderation on Discord is best-in-class. I do think good moderation with federation is entirely possible, but it's much more challenging than moderating something centralized.
In the case of Matrix, part of the problem is that a room administrator has comparatively few tools for blocking bad homeservers as compared to selective defederation on the fediverse.
@xgranade i'd like to believe it's possible, but given the unthreaded nature of chat-like interactions i don't see how. defederation on the fediverse mostly works ok because our conversations here are so heavily threaded. even then, instance owners are cautious about defederating popular instances like mastodon.social. but imagine removing all the mastodon.social-equivalent posts from an unthreaded chat stream.
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@tiotasram @Canageek @xgranade It also has some pretty good administration docs.
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undefined gina@fosstodon.org shared this topic
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@xgranade Yeah, I'm going to wait a few weeks to see what happens when people who know what they are doing try them various software but right now I'm leaving towards Zulip or IRC or XMPP on my own server for text and TeamSpeak or Mumble for voice.
(I've already rented a TeamSpeak server for about $3/month but it's text chat is worse then IRC)
@Canageek @xgranade XMPP & Teamspeak + web based discussion forum used to be the default combo for lot of hobbies in the days before Discord. They never went away, but users disappeared. Still a viable solution. The problem is getting your users to leave Discord. Looking at what happened to Twitter and Reddit, it seems the cost of leaving is still higher than enduring enshittification for the majority.
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Hot take: looking for a single silver-bullet Discord replacement is solving the wrong problem. Corporate power has pushed us towards everything-apps, but it's OK for the tool you use to communicate with other users of an open source project to look different from the tool you use to text your spouse and the tool you use to run voice chats with your gaming guilds.
Yeah, just use mumble for voice chats, and the Fediverse for everything else. Andgitto communicate with other users of some open source. (Not github.) -
@xgranade That’s what I do now, different people on different apps. The problem isn’t that none of the apps do enough of discord’s weird secondary features, it’s that they do not replace discord’s core functionality in a way that works for the kind of people i communicate with on discord at all.
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That inevitably hits pressure from folks who are, rightly or wrongly, averse to having more applications and services in their world. If you set up a family Discord "server," that may not require them to create a new account.
But I think there's ways to solve that without concentrating corporate power, and that those ways look more like federation than anything else. E.g. if your project forums run on Lemmy, folks can use their Lemmy accounts from other servers.
@xgranade I actually thought Mozilla Persona was a descent approach to the "yet another account" problem. Pitty it never really wet anywhere.
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Hot take: looking for a single silver-bullet Discord replacement is solving the wrong problem. Corporate power has pushed us towards everything-apps, but it's OK for the tool you use to communicate with other users of an open source project to look different from the tool you use to text your spouse and the tool you use to run voice chats with your gaming guilds.
@xgranade On one hand yes.
On the other libpurple is kind of entirely built around the notion of supporting dozens of separate protocols.
That's an acceptable kind of "everything program" to me.
(The source probably amounts to dozens of related programs with a more-or-less unified UI.) -
@xgranade On one hand yes.
On the other libpurple is kind of entirely built around the notion of supporting dozens of separate protocols.
That's an acceptable kind of "everything program" to me.
(The source probably amounts to dozens of related programs with a more-or-less unified UI.)@lispi314 Yeah, no, libpurple is awesome. It's still doing one thing, though, in the sense of that comparison, as compared with how Discord also has forums, open membership channels, add-ons that run on top of video calls, calendar integration, and so forth.
That's the kind of everything-app that I think is best avoided?
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undefined oblomov@sociale.network shared this topic
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@CollaboraOffice/116057368793326508
Btw. have i mentioned already that Hubzilla 11 implents Collabora via the WOPI protocol
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Nice ship! 🚢
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🧹🧹🧹🧹🧹
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@las_lallero ma da sniffare? le capsule nespresso? non so, un po' mi inquietano
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@sleepwithdemons @pstrada.bsky.social
Vedi? Felice di averti sconquassato il programma.
Spero.
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@las_lallero "what else?"
