Am I overreacting?
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Am I overreacting? The server @tags.pub takes every of my toots that contain any hashtag, and boost it using an account that has the name of said hashtag.
If I want to follow a hashtag, there is native feature for that within mastodon / activity pub. So my knee jerk reaction is that this is some shady click harvesting. Or?
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Am I overreacting? The server @tags.pub takes every of my toots that contain any hashtag, and boost it using an account that has the name of said hashtag.
If I want to follow a hashtag, there is native feature for that within mastodon / activity pub. So my knee jerk reaction is that this is some shady click harvesting. Or?
@MichalBryxi following a hashtag only works for content on instances you directly federate with. So there is a technical reason to implement it like that. Whether you like that is another question and I'd probably block that too.
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@alex Like the protocol is not reliable to federate this? Or that the load on those servers won’t allow it? Or that there are other self imposed?
If this is not a neferious activity. And if this could be achieved by following hashtags, but some arbitrary limits prevent it, then that’s another case of “straightener for a bender”: It could be fixed at the source, but some beaurocratic thing makes it so hard that it’s easier to deploy this hack.
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@MichalBryxi following a hashtag only works for content on instances you directly federate with. So there is a technical reason to implement it like that. Whether you like that is another question and I'd probably block that too.
@zhenech And that implies that (neferious servers and private use cases aside) it is common in this space to not federate with everyone?
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@MichalBryxi following a hashtag only works for content on instances you directly federate with. So there is a technical reason to implement it like that. Whether you like that is another question and I'd probably block that too.
@zhenech Yeah, it’s a bit weird feeling. That’s why I asked.
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@alex Oooh. Those conditions have AND or OR between them? I assume OR. Then (b) makes sense. (a) for following a hashtag seems duplicate as I already follow said person…
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@MichalBryxi following a hashtag only works for content on instances you directly federate with. So there is a technical reason to implement it like that. Whether you like that is another question and I'd probably block that too.
Yes. The service was not created for nefarious purposes, but to address issues with how things work or not work in today's fediverse.
There was a FOSDEM presentation on the matter, given by @evan creator of the service, where the intent and purpose is well-explained:
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I find this habit of creating magic profile hashtags to be a real bad practice, especially when modeling opt-outs in app-specific manner. cc @evan
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@alex Purely from technical perspective there is no need to have central server. IMO. You follow account, your server and their server exchange information about activity so that your server can give you information on what they did.
I don’t see a reason why the same could not happen for a hashtag. Your server knows which accounts you follow as well as hashtags. Collection can happen for both.
Network load and other real world limitations aside of course. -
@alex Thanks for your time btw. I could as well just google it and read on the topic.
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> The NoBot isn't app specific fwiw, it's pretty standard.
"pretty" boils down to de-facto standard, or rather it became a sorta kinda requirement by means of post-facto #interoperability. In other words: Who comes first, and popularizes some custom app-specific extension, becomes owner of that part of the spec that is now considered protocol-native.
#NoBot is app-specific too. Or Microblogging domain-specific perhaps, albeit implicitly then.
When it comes to considering it standard, we talk about accepting #ActivityPub protocol decay. Specifically:
- Considering the way account profiles are handled to be part of the protocol.
- To handle special control words (or just #NoBot) in the profile text. -
@alex yes, your suggestion was a good one. I did not mean to call you out, just to stipulate the matter to Evan in the mentions and other AP devs. Sorry, if that was unclear.
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@zhenech And that implies that (neferious servers and private use cases aside) it is common in this space to not federate with everyone?
@MichalBryxi you only federate if there is a "connection" (I think "a user interacted with a post from the other instance" is enough to establish one)
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@alex @smallcircles @evan Side note: After few decades in IT the #NoBot solution integrated into user profile *text* / bio is something that immediately sounds 🚨🔕🧯as something that will be problematic (as it’s just a monkey patch on an incorrect spot) and should be redesigned when accepted conceptually.
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I find this habit of creating magic profile hashtags to be a real bad practice, especially when modeling opt-outs in app-specific manner. cc @evan
@smallcircles @alex @MichalBryxi it's pretty common on the Fediverse.
That said, I'd love to add vocabulary terms for it. And you could edit your actor object and add them.
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@smallcircles @alex @MichalBryxi it's pretty common on the Fediverse.
That said, I'd love to add vocabulary terms for it. And you could edit your actor object and add them.
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@alex @smallcircles @evan Side note: After few decades in IT the #NoBot solution integrated into user profile *text* / bio is something that immediately sounds 🚨🔕🧯as something that will be problematic (as it’s just a monkey patch on an incorrect spot) and should be redesigned when accepted conceptually.
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@MichalBryxi you only federate if there is a "connection" (I think "a user interacted with a post from the other instance" is enough to establish one)
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@alex yes, your suggestion was a good one. I did not mean to call you out, just to stipulate the matter to Evan in the mentions and other AP devs. Sorry, if that was unclear.
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> The NoBot isn't app specific fwiw, it's pretty standard.
"pretty" boils down to de-facto standard, or rather it became a sorta kinda requirement by means of post-facto #interoperability. In other words: Who comes first, and popularizes some custom app-specific extension, becomes owner of that part of the spec that is now considered protocol-native.
#NoBot is app-specific too. Or Microblogging domain-specific perhaps, albeit implicitly then.
When it comes to considering it standard, we talk about accepting #ActivityPub protocol decay. Specifically:
- Considering the way account profiles are handled to be part of the protocol.
- To handle special control words (or just #NoBot) in the profile text.
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@alex Thanks for your time btw. I could as well just google it and read on the topic.
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@alex Purely from technical perspective there is no need to have central server. IMO. You follow account, your server and their server exchange information about activity so that your server can give you information on what they did.
I don’t see a reason why the same could not happen for a hashtag. Your server knows which accounts you follow as well as hashtags. Collection can happen for both.
Network load and other real world limitations aside of course.
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I have a Mastodon List of "Group Accounts", which makes for a good timeline of discussions around specific topics.
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