#CW sex/masturbation-related thought experiment.
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@alice They way I think of it, if someone asked if you had sex last night (in a scenario where you were inclined to answer), then saying "yes" in this case would be uncooperative, but describing what happened would be perfectly relevant and a good way to answer. (And the same for masturbation.) On the other hand, I would not consider saying "no" to be a lie.
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#CW sex/masturbation-related thought experiment.
Let's say you had a dream last night, and in that dream you had consentual sex with someone until you reached orgasm. You wake to find evidence that you did in fact orgasm.
Which option seems most accurate to you?
If you choose "Neither of the above options are accurate", I'd love it if you'd leave a reply as to what you think it was.
@alice neither of the above are accurate, because it was a dream, and it was only a dream. hallucinations may be wonderful sometimes, but they aren't real.
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@alice neither of the above are accurate, because it was a dream, and it was only a dream. hallucinations may be wonderful sometimes, but they aren't real.
@aeva I don't know if I'd classify the workings of my brain as not real, particularly when they're having an outward effect on the world.
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To all the replies of "you didn't have sex/masturbate because you didn't consent to it", I'd say you have a point—you don't consent to the content of your dreams, but if you're anything like me, you have agency in your dreams. I've made hard choices in my dreams, up to and including killing or sparing people, as well as having sex. I didn't choose to be in the situations, but I definitely acted similarly to how I would have under the same circumstances if I were awake. E.g. my morals and reasoning were still working, even if dream logic is fuzzy (kind of like being drunk). Like I've never woken from a dream and thought "there's no way I'd have done that!".
@alice I have made choices in my dreams that I would have never made in real life. If someone tried to judge me for the things that happen in my dreams that person would be out of my life so fast.
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@aeva I don't know if I'd classify the workings of my brain as not real, particularly when they're having an outward effect on the world.
@alice in the hypothetical situation you described, the person had a vivid hallucination and then maybe also experienced an involuntary philological response to it while unconscious. that is very different than actually having sex with someone
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@alice in the hypothetical situation you described, the person had a vivid hallucination and then maybe also experienced an involuntary philological response to it while unconscious. that is very different than actually having sex with someone
@aeva maybe, but is it substantially different from having sex with yourself while fantasizing about someone?
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@alice in the hypothetical situation you described, the person had a vivid hallucination and then maybe also experienced an involuntary philological response to it while unconscious. that is very different than actually having sex with someone
@alice let's put it differently, if you had a dream where you believed quite vividly that you had died, and woke up abruptly in cold sweat and an elevated pulse and whatever other such physiological reactions one tends to have in reaction to those circumstances, would it be accurate to say "I died last night"?
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@aeva maybe, but is it substantially different from having sex with yourself while fantasizing about someone?
@alice yes
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@alice let's put it differently, if you had a dream where you believed quite vividly that you had died, and woke up abruptly in cold sweat and an elevated pulse and whatever other such physiological reactions one tends to have in reaction to those circumstances, would it be accurate to say "I died last night"?
@aeva when you play a video game is it accurate to say "I died" when your character dies in game?
I think most people would use the phrase, and if pressed, admit "I died in game" rather than that no death occurred.
I think that "I had sex in my dream" is still "I had sex", it just comes with an asterisk—much the way "I died" does.
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@aeva when you play a video game is it accurate to say "I died" when your character dies in game?
I think most people would use the phrase, and if pressed, admit "I died in game" rather than that no death occurred.
I think that "I had sex in my dream" is still "I had sex", it just comes with an asterisk—much the way "I died" does.
@alice I would expect saying "I died" in the context of playing a video game to be a widely understood colloquial usage of the phrase "I died", whereas if I went around claiming I had sex with someone I never had sex with in a context free statement that would maybe at best come off as being a gross lie to tell and at worst libelous statement.
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@alice I would expect saying "I died" in the context of playing a video game to be a widely understood colloquial usage of the phrase "I died", whereas if I went around claiming I had sex with someone I never had sex with in a context free statement that would maybe at best come off as being a gross lie to tell and at worst libelous statement.
@alice if the poll options were "You had sex in a dream last night" and "You masturbated in a dream last night", I'd have voted for the first option, but a wet dream is not sex or masturbation
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@alice I would expect saying "I died" in the context of playing a video game to be a widely understood colloquial usage of the phrase "I died", whereas if I went around claiming I had sex with someone I never had sex with in a context free statement that would maybe at best come off as being a gross lie to tell and at worst libelous statement.
@aeva I'd agree that saying you had sex *with* someone would be incorrect, as no one besides you was actually involved.
But to combine with the video game analogy, I think people in the Matrix were having sex, even if the person they were having sex with was a program. Their brains thought it was sex, their bodies thought it was sex, they had no control over their situation, but they thought they were consenting to sex*.
*I'm putting aside rape here, because this topic is already perilous enough for now.
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@aeva I'd agree that saying you had sex *with* someone would be incorrect, as no one besides you was actually involved.
But to combine with the video game analogy, I think people in the Matrix were having sex, even if the person they were having sex with was a program. Their brains thought it was sex, their bodies thought it was sex, they had no control over their situation, but they thought they were consenting to sex*.
*I'm putting aside rape here, because this topic is already perilous enough for now.
@alice right, but if you die in the matrix you also die in real life. being a work of fiction, many exciting things are possible.
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@alice right, but if you die in the matrix you also die in real life. being a work of fiction, many exciting things are possible.
@alice it seems probable to me that people have probably figured out how to have sex in vr chat by now though. that is above my pay grade to speculate on the ontological ramifications of, but it would be fascinating to read about
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@alice it seems probable to me that people have probably figured out how to have sex in vr chat by now though. that is above my pay grade to speculate on the ontological ramifications of, but it would be fascinating to read about
@aeva oh, people have been doing that since it was invented 😅
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@aeva oh, people have been doing that since it was invented 😅
@alice and there is plenty of prior art
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@mcc wow!
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