Manet's famous painting Un Bar aux Folies-Bergère never appealed to me.
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Manet's famous painting Un Bar aux Folies-Bergère never appealed to me. But now I realize its genius, and my spine tingles every time I see it.
The perspective looks all wrong. You're staring straight at this barmaid, but her reflection in the mirror is way off to right. Even worse, her reflection is facing a guy who doesn't appear in the main view!
But in 2000, a researcher showed this perspective is actually possible!!! To prove it, he did a photographic reconstruction of this scene. Check it out in my next post.
This blows my mind.
(1/3)
Oh, dear. I always thought that there were literally two barmaids working and it was a two-sided bar. :o
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Manet's famous painting Un Bar aux Folies-Bergère never appealed to me. But now I realize its genius, and my spine tingles every time I see it.
The perspective looks all wrong. You're staring straight at this barmaid, but her reflection in the mirror is way off to right. Even worse, her reflection is facing a guy who doesn't appear in the main view!
But in 2000, a researcher showed this perspective is actually possible!!! To prove it, he did a photographic reconstruction of this scene. Check it out in my next post.
This blows my mind.
(1/3)
@johncarlosbaez I loved the analysis at https://www.arte.tv/fr/videos/123385-000-A/le-monde-dans-un-tableau/ (in French)
especially the japanese point of view.
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@johncarlosbaez @antopatriarca @ojs
Waldy did a nice item on it a few years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye5kbf2_wdI
#art #Manet #ABarAtFoliesBergère #Suzon@spacemagick @johncarlosbaez @antopatriarca @ojs "Waldy", heh. In our family we call him "Wally the hobbit" and watch anything he makes.
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Manet's famous painting Un Bar aux Folies-Bergère never appealed to me. But now I realize its genius, and my spine tingles every time I see it.
The perspective looks all wrong. You're staring straight at this barmaid, but her reflection in the mirror is way off to right. Even worse, her reflection is facing a guy who doesn't appear in the main view!
But in 2000, a researcher showed this perspective is actually possible!!! To prove it, he did a photographic reconstruction of this scene. Check it out in my next post.
This blows my mind.
(1/3)
@johncarlosbaez This painting and your thread caused an interesting discussion with my 16-year old son and my wife, starting with my son asking "why do you have this painting open in your computer".
Edit. My son doesn't buy your explanation. I haven't made up my mind. 🙂
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@johncarlosbaez This painting and your thread caused an interesting discussion with my 16-year old son and my wife, starting with my son asking "why do you have this painting open in your computer".
Edit. My son doesn't buy your explanation. I haven't made up my mind. 🙂
@johncarlosbaez From my reading of the painting, the first thing that caught my attention was not what you pointed out about the perspective, but the expression of the face. The painting is all about that, as I understand it.
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Manet's famous painting Un Bar aux Folies-Bergère never appealed to me. But now I realize its genius, and my spine tingles every time I see it.
The perspective looks all wrong. You're staring straight at this barmaid, but her reflection in the mirror is way off to right. Even worse, her reflection is facing a guy who doesn't appear in the main view!
But in 2000, a researcher showed this perspective is actually possible!!! To prove it, he did a photographic reconstruction of this scene. Check it out in my next post.
This blows my mind.
(1/3)
this desreves an ol fashioned
NEAT-O! -
Manet's famous painting Un Bar aux Folies-Bergère never appealed to me. But now I realize its genius, and my spine tingles every time I see it.
The perspective looks all wrong. You're staring straight at this barmaid, but her reflection in the mirror is way off to right. Even worse, her reflection is facing a guy who doesn't appear in the main view!
But in 2000, a researcher showed this perspective is actually possible!!! To prove it, he did a photographic reconstruction of this scene. Check it out in my next post.
This blows my mind.
(1/3)
It's even more fascinating in the original.
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Manet's famous painting Un Bar aux Folies-Bergère never appealed to me. But now I realize its genius, and my spine tingles every time I see it.
The perspective looks all wrong. You're staring straight at this barmaid, but her reflection in the mirror is way off to right. Even worse, her reflection is facing a guy who doesn't appear in the main view!
But in 2000, a researcher showed this perspective is actually possible!!! To prove it, he did a photographic reconstruction of this scene. Check it out in my next post.
This blows my mind.
(1/3)
@johncarlosbaez Fascinating! I instinctively parse the reflection as a different woman---I see two barmaids, working a bar that's an island in the middle of a large room, in an environment that's depersonalizing enough that the barmaids are expected to look alike.
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Manet's famous painting Un Bar aux Folies-Bergère never appealed to me. But now I realize its genius, and my spine tingles every time I see it.
The perspective looks all wrong. You're staring straight at this barmaid, but her reflection in the mirror is way off to right. Even worse, her reflection is facing a guy who doesn't appear in the main view!
But in 2000, a researcher showed this perspective is actually possible!!! To prove it, he did a photographic reconstruction of this scene. Check it out in my next post.
This blows my mind.
(1/3)
@johncarlosbaez Ha, Manet screwed one detail! If the reflection of the flower is at the right edge of the painting, the reflection of the leftmost champagne bottle should be visible under the maid's left arm.
Nice post (-;
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This diagram shows how the perspective works in Manet's famous painting Un bar aux Folies Bergère. We are viewing the woman at an angle, and while the man is outside our field of view, his reflection can be seen.
Astounding! But it's not just a technical feat. It allowed Manet to make a deep point. While the woman is busy serving her customer, she is internally completely detached - perhaps bored, perhaps introspective. She is SPLIT.
To fully understand the painting you also need to know that many of the barmaids at the Folies Bergère also served as prostitutes. Standing behind the oranges, the champagne and a bottle of Bass ale, the woman is just as much a commodity as these other things. But she is coldly detached from her objectification.
The woman in the painting was actually a real person, known as Suzon, who worked at the Folies-Bergère in the early 1880s. For his painting, Manet posed her in his studio.
Before I understood this painting, I wasn't really looking at it - I didn't see it. I didn't even see the green shoes of the trapeze artist. I can often grasp music quite quickly. But paintings often fail to move me until someone explains them.
When Manet came out with this painting in 1882, some critics mocked him for his poor understanding of perspective. Some said he was going senile. It was, in fact, his last major painting. But he was a genius, and he was going... whoosh... over their heads, just like he went over mine.
This diagram was created by Malcolm Park with help from Darren McKimm. For more details go here:
https://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/manet_bar/looking_glass.html
(3/3)
@johncarlosbaez Somewhat ironically, our college bar had the full-size Manet behind it, in between mirrored sections.
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Manet's famous painting Un Bar aux Folies-Bergère never appealed to me. But now I realize its genius, and my spine tingles every time I see it.
The perspective looks all wrong. You're staring straight at this barmaid, but her reflection in the mirror is way off to right. Even worse, her reflection is facing a guy who doesn't appear in the main view!
But in 2000, a researcher showed this perspective is actually possible!!! To prove it, he did a photographic reconstruction of this scene. Check it out in my next post.
This blows my mind.
(1/3)
@johncarlosbaez I just always thought the guy in the mirror was you the viewer. 😄
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Manet's famous painting Un Bar aux Folies-Bergère never appealed to me. But now I realize its genius, and my spine tingles every time I see it.
The perspective looks all wrong. You're staring straight at this barmaid, but her reflection in the mirror is way off to right. Even worse, her reflection is facing a guy who doesn't appear in the main view!
But in 2000, a researcher showed this perspective is actually possible!!! To prove it, he did a photographic reconstruction of this scene. Check it out in my next post.
This blows my mind.
(1/3)
@johncarlosbaez Also it’s a painting and not meant to follow the rules of photography and reality.
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This diagram shows how the perspective works in Manet's famous painting Un bar aux Folies Bergère. We are viewing the woman at an angle, and while the man is outside our field of view, his reflection can be seen.
Astounding! But it's not just a technical feat. It allowed Manet to make a deep point. While the woman is busy serving her customer, she is internally completely detached - perhaps bored, perhaps introspective. She is SPLIT.
To fully understand the painting you also need to know that many of the barmaids at the Folies Bergère also served as prostitutes. Standing behind the oranges, the champagne and a bottle of Bass ale, the woman is just as much a commodity as these other things. But she is coldly detached from her objectification.
The woman in the painting was actually a real person, known as Suzon, who worked at the Folies-Bergère in the early 1880s. For his painting, Manet posed her in his studio.
Before I understood this painting, I wasn't really looking at it - I didn't see it. I didn't even see the green shoes of the trapeze artist. I can often grasp music quite quickly. But paintings often fail to move me until someone explains them.
When Manet came out with this painting in 1882, some critics mocked him for his poor understanding of perspective. Some said he was going senile. It was, in fact, his last major painting. But he was a genius, and he was going... whoosh... over their heads, just like he went over mine.
This diagram was created by Malcolm Park with help from Darren McKimm. For more details go here:
https://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/manet_bar/looking_glass.html
(3/3)
@johncarlosbaez for some more fun, compare it to Jeff Wall Picture for Women! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picture_for_Women
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@johncarlosbaez for some more fun, compare it to Jeff Wall Picture for Women! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picture_for_Women
@gaunilone - thanks! Interesting.
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This diagram shows how the perspective works in Manet's famous painting Un bar aux Folies Bergère. We are viewing the woman at an angle, and while the man is outside our field of view, his reflection can be seen.
Astounding! But it's not just a technical feat. It allowed Manet to make a deep point. While the woman is busy serving her customer, she is internally completely detached - perhaps bored, perhaps introspective. She is SPLIT.
To fully understand the painting you also need to know that many of the barmaids at the Folies Bergère also served as prostitutes. Standing behind the oranges, the champagne and a bottle of Bass ale, the woman is just as much a commodity as these other things. But she is coldly detached from her objectification.
The woman in the painting was actually a real person, known as Suzon, who worked at the Folies-Bergère in the early 1880s. For his painting, Manet posed her in his studio.
Before I understood this painting, I wasn't really looking at it - I didn't see it. I didn't even see the green shoes of the trapeze artist. I can often grasp music quite quickly. But paintings often fail to move me until someone explains them.
When Manet came out with this painting in 1882, some critics mocked him for his poor understanding of perspective. Some said he was going senile. It was, in fact, his last major painting. But he was a genius, and he was going... whoosh... over their heads, just like he went over mine.
This diagram was created by Malcolm Park with help from Darren McKimm. For more details go here:
https://www.getty.edu/art/exhibitions/manet_bar/looking_glass.html
(3/3)
@johncarlosbaez I interpreted it that she is looking straight at us and in the mirror she is looking at the customer therefore we are the customer.
But if the perspective doesn't add up then I guess we are the next customer along. -
@johncarlosbaez Also it’s a painting and not meant to follow the rules of photography and reality.
@jranft - indeed, painters can do whatever they want. For example the woman is more thin than her reflection.
But this painting was made in an era when realism was the the norm, and it confused people.
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@markmetz - I haven't seen that. Sounds good!
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@johncarlosbaez Somewhat ironically, our college bar had the full-size Manet behind it, in between mirrored sections.
@BashStKid - Maybe someone had a wicked sense of humor.
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@jranft - indeed, painters can do whatever they want. For example the woman is more thin than her reflection.
But this painting was made in an era when realism was the the norm, and it confused people.
@johncarlosbaez Impressionism was a fleeting glimpse of reality, often distorting it in this way.
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@jranft - indeed, painters can do whatever they want. For example the woman is more thin than her reflection.
But this painting was made in an era when realism was the the norm, and it confused people.
@johncarlosbaez Impressionism was a fleeting glimpse of reality, often distorting it in this way.
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We're going to need more Luigis.
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@nuclearpasta it is, but in the longer term it's truly beneficial
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@krnlg @solitha Therac-25[1] predated most of the problems: the problem is that Therac-25 isn't universally taught in CS classes!
[1] the accidents happened from 1985, but the Therac-25 dates to 1975 and the software was written by one dude using PDP-11 assembler who may well not have understood race conditions.
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@cstross
Mind you at this point I don't even really know what I'm trying to say any more, it's more a primal scream in elongated word form. I didn't mean to spam you folks notifications quite this much, sorry.
@solitha
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@cstross
All I'm saying is, we engineered nukes and machine guns, napalm and white phosphorus and ethics exams never stopped us. I know it's easy to group all that as Military but it's pretty cross-discipline I think.I do agree about software eng, Therac 25 comes to mind.
@solitha
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@soph Interesting: do you have a citation for vibe-code failing legal checks? No issue if you don't, I can hop on Google and find it, but this would be the first I'd heard of it (most of what I've heard is that LLM output is uncopyrightable, not that it violates someone else's copyright).
The reason I ask is that I'm aware of corporate contexts where it's being used and if the courts are leaning towards declaring them copyright violations that could have significant implications (declaring them non-copyrightable probably less so; in practice most companies protect source code as trade-secret because it's hard to prove provenance in a court-of-law... Or by moving so fast that a competitor exfiltrating an out-of-date chunk of source isn't super useful or would require the competitor to also have the hardware / architecture the code "lives" in).
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@solitha
We have the wrong balance, is all I'm saying. Not that science is wrong, far from it. Not that we should sit in caves loving each other while we die young either! 🙂We're an immature civilisation flailing around with power we don't know how to handle. Our philosophy is way behind our science, and we're ruled by bad people who take our science and use it to ruin everything.
Feels like we're already living in sci-fi but I guess that's the power and purpose of fiction!
@cstross
