systemd lost the plot a long time ago.

[distrowatch@mastodon.social]

@bazkie @nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft Devuan is Debian with an alternative init.

Antix provides multiple init implementations.

FreeBSD is not hard if you are used to Debian.

[synlogic4242@social.vivaldi.net]

@nixCraft I'm most worried about debut of AGENTS.md file and what says about judgment of project leaders and maintainers, and who they allow to touch codebase. millions of folks de facto need to trust every frickin commit into systemd since its on the critical path on tons of Linux hosts by now. I saw one individual in particular, working on one key subsystem who I would not trust on a system this critical, esp if that individ is also "using AI" and also gets to blame any malware-enabling commits "on some AI" rather than their own brain/hand. they could be setting us up

I'm a fan of Lennart Poettering in general but I worry he's gotten distracted by spinning up his startup Amutable

[nazokiyoubinbou@urusai.social]

@distrowatch @bazkie @nixCraft I didn't know about this Devuan. That's kind of interesting. Perhaps that might help keep some of the compatibility I currently enjoy. I hope. I may have to give it a good look.

Thanks!

EDIT: Devuan has a page listing a number of distros with alternative inits it seems: https://www.devuan.org/os/init-freedom

[joonq@mastodon.social]

@bazkie @nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft I just yesterday switched from debian to void linux but if you want a debian like experience then theres devuan!

[gjerma@mastodon.social]

@nixCraft Unix philosophy is unnecessary and questionable, just like age verification.

[luxifer@social.luxiferapp.com]

@nixCraft it's not age verification it's just a birth date in the filesystem YOU define, no verification whatsoever. And the value is available on dbus. Up the the app developer to do something with it. Yes systemd has flaws, plural, its design is questionable. But right now it's just an excuse to bash it one more time. And so what, we go back to thousand lignes bash scripts ordered with numbers which can faim at any moment?

[bazkie@beige.party]

@nazokiyoubinbou @distrowatch @nixCraft same!

[hisold@toot.io]

@nixCraft I'm not going back to shell scripts and fucking rc.local. Is there any usable alternative?

[haui@mastodon.giftedmc.com]

@gjerma
I still think politics should be done by groups like eff and fsf. The indicidual projects should just ask for direction from them. If that isnt possible, making some kind of union for foss workers or collectives could work. I still think code specialists and politucs specialists are seldom the same person which is the root of the problem imo.
@nixCraft

[marco@mastodon.skup.in]

@nixCraft I really tried to ignore the systemd drama as long as my system worked but I guess I have to look for a guide now on how to replace systemd on arch linux. Does gnome even work without systemd?

[jandi@mastodon.social]

@distrowatch @bazkie @nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft I've had an excellent experience with MX, which recently reinstated their classic dual-init support: https://mxlinux.org/blog/mx-25-dual-init-setup/

Now it's dual-init by default. My favorite Debian-based distro.

[hokid@mastodon.social]

@nixCraft Please, just stop using the term "Unix philosophy" as a fetish. There's a ton of great software that does not follow it, and I've seen enough failing init scripts in my life to convince me that endlessly stringing tools together with pipes is not a robust way of writing software.

[nazokiyoubinbou@urusai.social]

@jandi @distrowatch @bazkie @nixCraft I'm not sure I understand the benefit of dual init. Doesn't that mean you get the bloat and downsides of systemd while also using sysvinit for some reason? You're still going to have all the stuff that people want to avoid with systemd while it's installed and doing its thing, just with added complexity.

[r1w1s1@snac.bsd.cafe]

glad Slackware stays out of this :) different approaches are fine, but I still prefer simple rc scripts and small tools over one big system doing everything.

#slackware

[jandi@mastodon.social]

@nazokiyoubinbou @distrowatch @bazkie @nixCraft The distro supports both. As you can see in the linked post you can easily remove either, but you can also pick and choose at every boot, for any purpose (troubleshooting, dev, debug, etc). MX is a decidedly pro-user distro.

In the same vein, you can use flatpaks, snaps, appimages, debs, containers, whatever, if you so choose. It's quite flexible but not (IMO) overwhelming.

Still, of course, not everything for everyone, it might not be for you.

[oz1tmm@techhub.social]

@hokid @nixCraft
It would be quite fine if the software you strung together would follow the principle.

[hokid@mastodon.social]

@oz1tmm @nixCraft In my experience, all that is ever written this way is yet another static site generator nobody else can use to blog about the Unix philosophy.

[jenesuispersonne@piaille.fr]

@nixCraft but now gnome and kde enforce systemd usage..
We're fucked.

[lumiworx@mastodon.social]

@luxifer @nixCraft

Sorry, but there is no logical reason for systemd to need details that specific and precise for any purpose other than age verification.

If it were for birthday lookups for 'well wishers', it would be held in the calendar app. If it were for parental control, it would be under that heading, and only as a toggle of yes/no, on access to XYZ.

To think that it has a place in sustemd at all leads to a question of why any PPI data is necessary in ANY subsystem. It's not.

[luxifer@social.luxiferapp.com]

@lumiworx @nixCraft I didn't say systemd had to do it. But acting proactively before those dumb politicians starts banning Linux distribution that don't support is at least something. But I agree with you it has nothing to do there in the first place