Is it OK to write code that does new things on the Fediverse?
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Is it OK to write code that does new things on the Fediverse?
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Anyway, my answer is yes. It's OK for people to make code that does new things on the Fediverse.
@evan 💔🙏
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Thanks all. I see a lot of developers getting brigaded for launching new tools on the Fediverse. At best, they're insulted and their motives are questioned. At worst, they're brigaded on GitHub, the Fediverse, or in real life.
@evan in the same way that people won't opt in to services that use their data to do things they don't care about, the developers making these services won't listen unless they are told forcefully that their presence is not welcome. I have the world's smallest violin for the people getting brigaded when they act like assholes. There are plenty of developers on Fedi doing new things and not getting brigaded. For example, I don't recall the GoToSocial devs getting brigaded for adding additional reply controls to their project, but they also weren't acting like jerks so I wouldn't expect them to be brigraded.
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@evan new things like what?
@bkardell If I knew what the new things were, they wouldn't be new.
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I feel the hidden question of the #poll is: Given the #technology base exists, can you just code against it at will? I.e. the tech #ethics question is asked. Where on one end of the spectrum we find the techbro / fossbro, and on the other end of the spectrum we are still learning what we should have there as an alternative to make a social web be social and keep it that way. As "social web" technology by itself offers zero guarantee of that.
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@dalias > Traditionally in Japan that was NOT ok at least socially.
Were Japan just weirdly early on search engines and never had web directories or was something else going on? -
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@gabboman so, maybe the person making a social web crawler is just as well-intentioned as the person making the no-mention private messages?
Sometimes. I know of a couple cases where once it was pointed out that somebody had violated longstanding norms here (or as @gabboman says, the "spiirt of the social contract of fedi") , they immediately apologized and took down the data they had scraped. And guess what? Those cases didn't lead to blow ups.
But in the cases I'm aware of where it did blow up, they the either said something that made it clear that they had intentionally not designing for informed, affirmative consent ... or made an intentional choice to ignore (or pushed back on) the initial feedback.
These repeated firestorms really are an unfortunate pattern but as I've said for quite a while it's going to keep happening until fedi influencers with big megaphones change their behavior.
start repeatedly emphasizing that consent and resistance to surveillance capitalism are very important norms here.
share and model best practices for how to avoid unintentionally violating norms -- including asking before releasing something (because it's not always obvious what will set off a firestorm) and listening to the feedback rather than dismissing it
It's frustrating because it's been over two years since I wrote https://thenexusofprivacy.net/consent-for-fediverse-developers/ and @deadsuperhero did a remix of it on We Distribute at https://wedistribute.org/2024/07/fediverse-privacy-and-consent/ In fact I think you might have even been at a #FediForum session (probably in 2024) where we discussed this! And yet, there really doesn't seem to be much interest from high-profile developers in getting the word out about this.
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@spraoi @smallcircles @gumnos @evan
These days (I hate to say “these days”, but I need to use it now), it seems to be fashionable to add “bro” to every group considered “harmful.” It often takes a particular demographic stereotype, usually white, straight men, who show a strong passion for a particular interest, and turns them into a caricature onto which a whole set of negative traits can be projected.
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@spraoi @smallcircles @gumnos @evan
These days (I hate to say “these days”, but I need to use it now), it seems to be fashionable to add “bro” to every group considered “harmful.” It often takes a particular demographic stereotype, usually white, straight men, who show a strong passion for a particular interest, and turns them into a caricature onto which a whole set of negative traits can be projected.
True, though I think initially the words built on a genuine observed diversity or lack thereof, for gender choice. Where the "techbro" refered to a stereotypical tech solutionist, Silicon Valley mindset. Then extended to FOSSbro to refer similar mindset in different context.
But today the words are deliberately used, in online fights, in the way you say.
In the past I suggested using alternatives for similar often used gendered terminology, just because a simple rename would lead to a friendlier online environment. Like rename "reply guy" to "reply sigh", and "mansplaining" to "oversplaining".
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True, though I think initially the words built on a genuine observed diversity or lack thereof, for gender choice. Where the "techbro" refered to a stereotypical tech solutionist, Silicon Valley mindset. Then extended to FOSSbro to refer similar mindset in different context.
But today the words are deliberately used, in online fights, in the way you say.
In the past I suggested using alternatives for similar often used gendered terminology, just because a simple rename would lead to a friendlier online environment. Like rename "reply guy" to "reply sigh", and "mansplaining" to "oversplaining".
@smallcircles @spraoi @gumnos @evan
Before we started internalizing the jargon from across the pond, we Italians had a habit of simply calling someone a “testa di cazzo,” roughly “dickhead.” It was neutral and inclusive: it could apply to anyone. We didn't need words like fascist, racist, homophobe, antivaxxer, Russian troll, or whatever else is trendy. Someone could simply be a dickhead. Nothing less, nothing more.
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