Working to Decentralize FedCM
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FedCM for the indieweb: https://blog.erlend.sh/indie-social-sign-in-could-go-mainstream
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FedCM for the indieweb: https://blog.erlend.sh/indie-social-sign-in-could-go-mainstream
Sounds good, but this FedCM seems to be basically a reinvention of Oauth2/OIDC. Even if it brings some minor improvements (credentials storage in the browser or so?), it seems dead on arrival given that there doesn't seem to be a strong dissatisfaction with how OIDC works. Or am I missing something?
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Sounds good, but this FedCM seems to be basically a reinvention of Oauth2/OIDC. Even if it brings some minor improvements (credentials storage in the browser or so?), it seems dead on arrival given that there doesn't seem to be a strong dissatisfaction with how OIDC works. Or am I missing something?
What you’re missing is that OIDC is innately centralized and FedCM, in particular thanks to this work, isn’t.
This is all building on or complementing the same underlying OAuth standards, like the CIMD spec that Emelia originally intended for adoption into Mastodon/ActivityPub to set the stage for decentralized OAuth, but it was never brought in. The AT protocol on the other hand adopted it into their decentralized oauth-atproto standard, which is on track to become a protocol-agnostic oauth-dweb standard.
Anyone who cares about decentralized software should be dissatisfied with how OIDC works. If you wanna use your primary fediverse account to log into other fedi apps, this work is for you.
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Sounds good, but this FedCM seems to be basically a reinvention of Oauth2/OIDC. Even if it brings some minor improvements (credentials storage in the browser or so?), it seems dead on arrival given that there doesn't seem to be a strong dissatisfaction with how OIDC works. Or am I missing something?
@poVoq @fediverse there's also a proposal (from google) for IdP Initiated FedCM, instead of relying party initiated
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What you’re missing is that OIDC is innately centralized and FedCM, in particular thanks to this work, isn’t.
This is all building on or complementing the same underlying OAuth standards, like the CIMD spec that Emelia originally intended for adoption into Mastodon/ActivityPub to set the stage for decentralized OAuth, but it was never brought in. The AT protocol on the other hand adopted it into their decentralized oauth-atproto standard, which is on track to become a protocol-agnostic oauth-dweb standard.
Anyone who cares about decentralized software should be dissatisfied with how OIDC works. If you wanna use your primary fediverse account to log into other fedi apps, this work is for you.
OIDC isn't "innately centralized", thats just how the majority of people use it. And the same will be likely true for FedCM.
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What you’re missing is that OIDC is innately centralized and FedCM, in particular thanks to this work, isn’t.
This is all building on or complementing the same underlying OAuth standards, like the CIMD spec that Emelia originally intended for adoption into Mastodon/ActivityPub to set the stage for decentralized OAuth, but it was never brought in. The AT protocol on the other hand adopted it into their decentralized oauth-atproto standard, which is on track to become a protocol-agnostic oauth-dweb standard.
Anyone who cares about decentralized software should be dissatisfied with how OIDC works. If you wanna use your primary fediverse account to log into other fedi apps, this work is for you.
OIDC is innately centralized
Huh, that's not my understanding. I was there when it first came out, and the whole point was to allow you to use any URI of your choice as an authenticator. Let's see what the first line of Wikipedia has to say:
OpenID is an open standard and decentralized authentication protocol
Huh. 🤔
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OIDC is innately centralized
Huh, that's not my understanding. I was there when it first came out, and the whole point was to allow you to use any URI of your choice as an authenticator. Let's see what the first line of Wikipedia has to say:
OpenID is an open standard and decentralized authentication protocol
Huh. 🤔
See what CIMD solves for. “Innately centralized” was probably a poor choice of words, but OIDC not a good fit for an open social web with decentralized identities and a plethora of small identity providers that cannot be known upfront.
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OIDC is innately centralized
Huh, that's not my understanding. I was there when it first came out, and the whole point was to allow you to use any URI of your choice as an authenticator. Let's see what the first line of Wikipedia has to say:
OpenID is an open standard and decentralized authentication protocol
Huh. 🤔
You might be confusing the old OpenID with OIDC (short for Open ID Connect), which is based on Oauth2, an entirely different technology.
OpenID was definitely more decentralized compared to how OIDC is commonly used these days, but OIDC has various little know options to do similar things.
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See what CIMD solves for. “Innately centralized” was probably a poor choice of words, but OIDC not a good fit for an open social web with decentralized identities and a plethora of small identity providers that cannot be known upfront.
Forgejo has a feature (that people usually disable) where you can bring your own openid connect url and use it to auth. So if I have my own OIDC provider I am self hosting, I can just use that to log in.
Most people only use OIDC for google and microsoft and whatnot but it's very possible. I don't realkly see what FedCM offers that OIDC doesn't or can't, or why we shouldn't be adding features to the existing and popular OIDC instead.
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Forgejo has a feature (that people usually disable) where you can bring your own openid connect url and use it to auth. So if I have my own OIDC provider I am self hosting, I can just use that to log in.
Most people only use OIDC for google and microsoft and whatnot but it's very possible. I don't realkly see what FedCM offers that OIDC doesn't or can't, or why we shouldn't be adding features to the existing and popular OIDC instead.
This requires manually enabling every additional provider. This doesn’t work if some individuals or smaller collectives wanna run their own identity providers, numbering in the thousands.
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Sounds good, but this FedCM seems to be basically a reinvention of Oauth2/OIDC. Even if it brings some minor improvements (credentials storage in the browser or so?), it seems dead on arrival given that there doesn't seem to be a strong dissatisfaction with how OIDC works. Or am I missing something?
@thisismissem@hachyderm.io replied but it didn't make it over to Lemmy.
> @poVoq @fediverse there's also a proposal (from google) for IdP Initiated FedCM, instead of relying party initiated
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@thisismissem@hachyderm.io replied but it didn't make it over to Lemmy.
> @poVoq @fediverse there's also a proposal (from google) for IdP Initiated FedCM, instead of relying party initiated
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This requires manually enabling every additional provider. This doesn’t work if some individuals or smaller collectives wanna run their own identity providers, numbering in the thousands.
-
Forgejo has a feature (that people usually disable) where you can bring your own openid connect url and use it to auth. So if I have my own OIDC provider I am self hosting, I can just use that to log in.
Most people only use OIDC for google and microsoft and whatnot but it's very possible. I don't realkly see what FedCM offers that OIDC doesn't or can't, or why we shouldn't be adding features to the existing and popular OIDC instead.
-
You might be confusing the old OpenID with OIDC (short for Open ID Connect), which is based on Oauth2, an entirely different technology.
OpenID was definitely more decentralized compared to how OIDC is commonly used these days, but OIDC has various little know options to do similar things.
-
See what CIMD solves for. “Innately centralized” was probably a poor choice of words, but OIDC not a good fit for an open social web with decentralized identities and a plethora of small identity providers that cannot be known upfront.
-
OIDC is innately centralized
Huh, that's not my understanding. I was there when it first came out, and the whole point was to allow you to use any URI of your choice as an authenticator. Let's see what the first line of Wikipedia has to say:
OpenID is an open standard and decentralized authentication protocol
Huh. 🤔
-
OIDC isn't "innately centralized", thats just how the majority of people use it. And the same will be likely true for FedCM.
-
@poVoq @fediverse there's also a proposal (from google) for IdP Initiated FedCM, instead of relying party initiated
