ACAB doesn't mean every single cop on an individual level is a morally bankrupt shithead.
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@hosford42 i admire it when people try to change things from within, but there's only so much leeway you can get to change things when a system that necessitated said things to happen is still in place. the rich and the government benefit from having the police, from being able to arrest protesters and throw them in jail, spy on its citizens and so on and so forth.
they don't just benefit from it, it's their entire purpose. cops are the enforcers of private property and a monopoly on violence to defend it. white supremacy doesn't work very well without theft of the commons.
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@hosford42 like at which point the consequences of someone's active participation in an unjust system become outweighed by the change they made? i hardly feel like one person can do this even if they're really sincere about it. and should they really be a part of said system to be able to change it?
there's no coming back from participating in the massive harm that white supremacy does. it's not something anyone can just apologise for.
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They resign because the systems are so fundamentally broken and enables such egregious levels of corruption that it's way too much for one person to fight it and it's just easier to resign.
Having been in public safety before, I have witnessed firsthand as well as been on the receiving end of such egregious levels of corruption. The level of stress was severe enough to cause me PTSD.
@someguy @hosford42 @mynameistillian
the cops aren't broken, they're doing exactly what they're supposed to do, and that's what's wrong with them.
there was never a time when cops were not violent class traitors and colonisers.
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it's also important to know that it goes far beyond bigotry. most police forces in the world are in some way based on one of Britain's original colonial police forces, the Ulster constabulary of Ireland. the Roman Catholic Church's Doctrine of Discovery mandated this kind of behaviour, and that which led to the colonising of Turtle Island.
the RCMP in Canada, formerly the North West Mounted Police, were originally established on the model of the Ulster constabulary, and they were tasked with separation of Indigenous families. those who would not give up their children to a death camp, aka "residential school", were threatened with starvation. the role of the RCMP today is still enforcing colonialism by other means, including brutal enforcement of land theft by resource extractors and over-incarceration of Indigenous people.
@burnitdown @mynameistillian This somehow unlocked a memory from decades ago, the first and only piece of Canadian copaganda i encountered was Due South, that i've seen briefly in the 90s among other media of that time that flooded the post-ussr TV broadcast.
Kinda one of the "cool looking cop protag with crystal clear morals" type show, the usual, and the completely unusual uniform added a bit too to the "cool factor".Was kinda "funny" learning much much later about how much heinous shit RCMP did and still do.
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ACAB doesn't mean every single cop on an individual level is a morally bankrupt shithead. (a lot of them are, but that's beside the point).
even if you are the kindest samaritan cop in the world who never hurt a fly, being a cop means that you are a part of the system that is designed for violence, for oppression and inequality and has a long bigoted history that spans to this day. you choose to associate with it, even if you don't realize the implications.
@mynameistillian working as a cop makes you a bastard though, even if you go into with "good intentions". intentions don't really matter. the job is gonna turn your into a bastard if you don't go into it as one.
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@mynameistillian I have a genuine question: What about those who would seek change from within? When I see officials resigning because of something awful, I always wonder why they don't stay on and fight against it, instead of handing the reins to someone who is blatantly malevolent. It's the same sort of deal here, from my perspective.
@hosford42 @mynameistillian The idea of "creating change from within" is mostly predicated on the unspoken assumption that the system or organization is fundamentally benevolent, and is being distorted or corrupted from the inside by elements which can be removed.
The problem with that assumption, unfortunately, is that things don't really work that way - any organization or institution will, given enough time, reshape itself to those which participate in it, their beliefs, their value systems, and their power dynamics. So even if an organization started benevolently, if the rot inside has been left unaddressed for long enough, it becomes part of the structure of the organization.
Is it possible to reverse this process, sit out the process of reshaping, and reshape it back towards something benevolent? On paper, yes. But the problem with that is that benevolence requires moral integrity, and moral integrity is expensive, in both time and energy - but malevolent actors have no such cost to their actions, they can pretty much do whatever is the easiest, no matter the cost to others.
The result is that every organization that's "interesting" (read: holds some amount of power and becomes a target of those who wish to wield it for their gain), will slowly trend towards malevolence as time goes on, with the benevolent participants always being at a disadvantage, and much more easily burning out. It's a war that can never really be won, only slowed down. And that war comes 'for free' with every institution of power.
So when officials resign, it's not necessarily because they don't have a spine, or because they give up easily - usually, it means that they have spent long enough 'in the trenches' to recognize this dynamic, and (correctly) concluded that it is an unwinnable war. At which point they'll usually either give up entirely, or switch to more radical strategies that aim to reduce or remove that power, since that's ultimately at the root of this dynamic - centralized power.
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@mynameistillian @livinghell crap joke about the old meaning of bastard.
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ACAB doesn't mean every single cop on an individual level is a morally bankrupt shithead. (a lot of them are, but that's beside the point).
even if you are the kindest samaritan cop in the world who never hurt a fly, being a cop means that you are a part of the system that is designed for violence, for oppression and inequality and has a long bigoted history that spans to this day. you choose to associate with it, even if you don't realize the implications.
@mynameistillian in other words: being a cop makes you a bastard.
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ACAB doesn't mean every single cop on an individual level is a morally bankrupt shithead. (a lot of them are, but that's beside the point).
even if you are the kindest samaritan cop in the world who never hurt a fly, being a cop means that you are a part of the system that is designed for violence, for oppression and inequality and has a long bigoted history that spans to this day. you choose to associate with it, even if you don't realize the implications.
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@someguy @hosford42 @mynameistillian
the cops aren't broken, they're doing exactly what they're supposed to do, and that's what's wrong with them.
there was never a time when cops were not violent class traitors and colonisers.
@burnitdown @hosford42 @mynameistillian
The system is working as intended.
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ACAB doesn't mean every single cop on an individual level is a morally bankrupt shithead. (a lot of them are, but that's beside the point).
even if you are the kindest samaritan cop in the world who never hurt a fly, being a cop means that you are a part of the system that is designed for violence, for oppression and inequality and has a long bigoted history that spans to this day. you choose to associate with it, even if you don't realize the implications.
@mynameistillian@plush.city
I think part of what it means is that a truly good cop will eventually get fired (or become bad). -
ACAB doesn't mean every single cop on an individual level is a morally bankrupt shithead. (a lot of them are, but that's beside the point).
even if you are the kindest samaritan cop in the world who never hurt a fly, being a cop means that you are a part of the system that is designed for violence, for oppression and inequality and has a long bigoted history that spans to this day. you choose to associate with it, even if you don't realize the implications.
@mynameistillian idk what being assigned crab at birth has to do with cops in the first place?
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@mynameistillian I have a genuine question: What about those who would seek change from within? When I see officials resigning because of something awful, I always wonder why they don't stay on and fight against it, instead of handing the reins to someone who is blatantly malevolent. It's the same sort of deal here, from my perspective.
Aaron To get into a high enough position within the system to have any meaningful control over the system means having participated in the system to such a degree that the system itself has repeatedly rewarded you.
People who want to change systems do not get rewarded by those systems. People who get rewarded by systems are not incentivised to change them.
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there's no coming back from participating in the massive harm that white supremacy does. it's not something anyone can just apologise for.
@burnitdown @mynameistillian @hosford42 besides, you *can't* reform the police from within. reform comes from the government. within the police the best you can do is choose how to follow the orders you get from the govt, which really doesn't go all that far, even if you were the top cop in the counrty
even if that weren't the case good people have a way harder time getting promoted. cops that call out others for racism, brutality, illegal acts etc
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@burnitdown @mynameistillian @hosford42 besides, you *can't* reform the police from within. reform comes from the government. within the police the best you can do is choose how to follow the orders you get from the govt, which really doesn't go all that far, even if you were the top cop in the counrty
even if that weren't the case good people have a way harder time getting promoted. cops that call out others for racism, brutality, illegal acts etc
@burnitdown @mynameistillian @hosford42 cops witrh resolute ethics tend to get ostracized or even mysteriously kill themselves the morning before providing evidence to a court about police misconduct, mere days after telling family "if i turn up dead it was not suicide"
(this is not a hypothetical situation, if i'm remembering right)
point is, to go far as a cop often requires looking the other way - especially in police forces most in need of reform
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ACAB doesn't mean every single cop on an individual level is a morally bankrupt shithead. (a lot of them are, but that's beside the point).
even if you are the kindest samaritan cop in the world who never hurt a fly, being a cop means that you are a part of the system that is designed for violence, for oppression and inequality and has a long bigoted history that spans to this day. you choose to associate with it, even if you don't realize the implications.
@mynameistillian ACAB also means you have to treat any cop you interact with as though they are the worst cop you may ever meet, because that's the risk you always face
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@burnitdown @mynameistillian @hosford42 besides, you *can't* reform the police from within. reform comes from the government. within the police the best you can do is choose how to follow the orders you get from the govt, which really doesn't go all that far, even if you were the top cop in the counrty
even if that weren't the case good people have a way harder time getting promoted. cops that call out others for racism, brutality, illegal acts etc
@Yza @mynameistillian @hosford42
there is no such thing as reform. it's a euphemism for reputation laundering.
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@Yza @mynameistillian @hosford42
there is no such thing as reform. it's a euphemism for reputation laundering.
@burnitdown @mynameistillian @hosford42 yep. i was using the term as generously as possible for the sake of discussion, but you're sure right
here's an example of how reformation is used to protect the police:
during 2020 police abolition got a higher approval rating that both then presidential candidates. the democrats managed to convince people that it was an unpopular slogan that would alienate potential allies
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@burnitdown @mynameistillian @hosford42 yep. i was using the term as generously as possible for the sake of discussion, but you're sure right
here's an example of how reformation is used to protect the police:
during 2020 police abolition got a higher approval rating that both then presidential candidates. the democrats managed to convince people that it was an unpopular slogan that would alienate potential allies
@burnitdown @mynameistillian @hosford42 they talked people down from abolish the police to defund the police. soon that became too spicy for them too and the cry became reform the police. it wasn't long before biden was running on a platform of 'fund the police'. how are you possibly going to reform them without spending money on training after all? and by training i mean giving the cops money under the assumption things will work themselves out
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