UK PEOPLE: this is REALLY IMPORTANT.

[cstross@wandering.shop]

RE: https://social.vivaldi.net/@LonM/115966748145817371

UK PEOPLE: this is REALLY IMPORTANT. If the government bans under-16s from using VPNs, then logically they must intend to REQUIRE AGE VERIFICATION FOR ALL VPN USE. Which will affect adults too!

*Your* privacy and right to anonymous web browsing is at risk!

[nicovel0@mastodon.social]

@cstross once more parliament doing a thing because it is something, and it is mistaken that it is better than doing nothing. How would this legislation work with parental control VPNs? They have no idea, most likely because most of them have no idea they even exist.

[cstross@wandering.shop]

@Nicovel0 Yes, but it's still toxic and dangerous (and will implicitly criminalize unregistered VPN users).

[skjeggtroll@mastodon.online]

@cstross

Which is cleary the _actual_ intent behind suggested legislation.

[oschonrock@mastodon.social]

@cstross

I agree this is bad...

But anyone who thinks browsing via a VPN is anonymous needs to learn more.

[cstross@wandering.shop]

@oschonrock Obviously it's not automatically anonymous, but it's a useful first step. And look who else is banning VPNs! (Hint: Iran, before they shut down cross-border internet completely. China. And so on.)

[oschonrock@mastodon.social]

@cstross it's really not that useful a first step.

It's just what the VPN industry has drummed into us with ubiquitous marketing.

Just install the "tor browser". It's free, cross platform and provides much more privacy than any VPN.

If you need true anonymity then use a privacy focused OS like "tails" - also free and uses TOR internally

Even better, these tools cannot be blocked or gated by governments.

VPNs are largely useless things sold by people who want your money.

[capriciousday@mastodon.social]

@cstross I sort of wonder how my extremely risk averse, security conscious employer who depends on VPNs is going to react to this

[etchedpixels@mastodon.social]

@cstross just to point out that Linux, Android and other things have a VPN built in so the results will actually be even more idiotic.
It will also stop trans kids using Tor to get info, something I am sure labour think is a huge win

[mbpaz@mas.to]

@cstross Ethical issues aside - how are m2m VPNs expected to validate their age?

"hi, I'm an environment monitoring device and was born barely 6 months ago, but I swear I'm old enough to use my built-in VPN to access my MQTT server"

[chrysanthos@meow.social]

@cstross I wish I had any faith in these petitions

[larsmb@mastodon.online]

@etchedpixels @cstross A lot of the recent legislative moves in the UK & EU both are rather highly incompatible with the use of "unlocked" Open Source systems.

But a bootloader-locked Android could easily enforce this rule.

I'm wondering at which time running a FLOSS Operating System on your devices will require a license/permit.

[cstross@wandering.shop]

@capriciousday Like banks and other financial institutions who require their employees to use them when working out of the office, or over wifi *within* the office.

[oschonrock@mastodon.social]

@cstross vpns have their place in corporate networks.

There they provide secure access to internal resources for remote workers.

They are all but useless for personal privacy / anonymity.

So while I agree with the principle of your objection to govts gating services - it is actually a faux battle based on misinformation by the VPN industry.

[nini@oldbytes.space]

@mbpaz @cstross Are you suggesting this legislation is being brought in without any technical knowledge just like the Online Safety Act was?

[jaawerth@functional.cafe]

@cstross @Nicovel0
Also, I'm only going on my memories of being a kid in the mid-late 90's and the word of mouth proliferation of Napster/shareware, but hard to imagine this not just resulting in kids teaching each other how to use TOR

...not that opposite effect is new to this kind of legislation

[kbal@fedia.io]

For those who don't believe that an ordinary commercial VPN service can improve your privacy, here's a simple experiment you can run at home: Get two similar computers, one with a VPN and one without. Use them both to download Hollywood movies through bittorrent, and see which one results in notifications of incoming lawsuits from movie studios.

Fortunately, there's no need to do this experiment yourself. Millions of people around the world have already done it for you.

[petersommerlad@mastodon.social]

@oschonrock @cstross
my major private use case is to circumvent geo blocking of video streaming and access to my home lan

[tiggy@mastodonapp.uk]

@cstross

And of course, while inconveniencing or worse ordinary people, it won't stop a determined teenager.
Same with physical ID, the ones they want to stop get around the new rules but people in general get more problems upon problems.

[oschonrock@mastodon.social]

@PeterSommerlad @cstross

Well the "home lan" is effectively the "corporate use case" I described, just for advanced IT folk.. (I used to do the same).

The geoblocking use case is "fair" in the sense that it "just works", but almost certainly contravenes the streaming service providers T&Cs. It does nothing for privacy, since you clearly log into these services.

(Psst: I also use TOR to get around geoblocking.. not quite as convenient, but free)