Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:
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I think you're underestimating the friction many of your suggested alternatives add to non-technical, non-privacy-minded folks. Conving my union to move off of Slack has failed and will continue to fail until the alternatives become as usable.
Yes, people CAN use alternatives, but the vast majority won't until they get much better.
@dangoodin That is no reason to give up. :)
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@dangoodin That is no reason to give up. :)
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Agreed. I'd love to start with Slack, but Matrix and other alternatives aren't usable for people whose mission is outside of tech (and even many whose mission IS tech oriented).
@dangoodin I think Nextcloud may be a better alternative to slack than Matrix (talk, circles etc) but then I never tried slack :)
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@dangoodin I think Nextcloud may be a better alternative to slack than Matrix (talk, circles etc) but then I never tried slack :)
I'll give it another look. Thanks.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:
-- Google
-- Slack
-- Meta
-- Microsoft
-- Apple
-- Too many others to listThese orgs cozy up to authoritarianism. They terminate your account for any reason or no reaso at all. They shove AI down your throat.
And yet, my workplace, union, and so many of the orgs I value and need keep using them and have no plans to ween themselves off. Yes, I realize current dynamics make all of this inevitable.
So I'm left feeling hopeless and helpless, which is a terrible place to be.
I appreciate everyone who has taken time to respond. Unfortunately, some of the responses demonstrate how much many of us privacy-minded technologists live in ivory towers and have no idea how hard it is to get the rest of the world to take on the added friction of switching.
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@dangoodin Even trying to pursuade certain relatives off WhatsApp. Oh my friends are all on it & I don't want notifications for another app as well.
@annehargreaves @dangoodin funny story, a friend works for a company that is iso 27001 certified, so everyone has to use teams -- because only microsoft is secure enough for enterprise.
but all of the execs still use personal whatsapp for comms, because teams is too hard. 🙃
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I appreciate everyone who has taken time to respond. Unfortunately, some of the responses demonstrate how much many of us privacy-minded technologists live in ivory towers and have no idea how hard it is to get the rest of the world to take on the added friction of switching.
It’s the whole “we all have to participate in society” thing. I need to communicate with my father’s caregivers and they have a phone app to check in at the facility. My kids use Google Classroom at their schools.
Do I wish it were otherwise? Sure. Am I going to make it difficult to care for my father or do my kids’ homework? Nope. Gotta pick my battles.
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Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:
-- Google
-- Slack
-- Meta
-- Microsoft
-- Apple
-- Too many others to listThese orgs cozy up to authoritarianism. They terminate your account for any reason or no reaso at all. They shove AI down your throat.
And yet, my workplace, union, and so many of the orgs I value and need keep using them and have no plans to ween themselves off. Yes, I realize current dynamics make all of this inevitable.
So I'm left feeling hopeless and helpless, which is a terrible place to be.
@dangoodin adoption and reach are the hardest things to overcome for a product that requires critical mass.
And even if you do not, the truckloads of $$ that have gone into making google or whatever 1/visible and 2/easy to set up are a force on their own.
Call it VHS vs. betamax but without external forces or regulatory events, it is VERY hard to displace even shitty incumbents, just because they happen to be there already.
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It’s the whole “we all have to participate in society” thing. I need to communicate with my father’s caregivers and they have a phone app to check in at the facility. My kids use Google Classroom at their schools.
Do I wish it were otherwise? Sure. Am I going to make it difficult to care for my father or do my kids’ homework? Nope. Gotta pick my battles.
The privacy of sensitive union discussions is most def a battle worth picking.
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The privacy of sensitive union discussions is most def a battle worth picking.
No argument there ✊
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Agreed. But no one seems to be doing that sucessfully, with maybe the exception of Signal and maybe Mastodon. Yes, others are trying but the usability is often lacking and the security is untested.
@dangoodin @davew @markhurst even if usability is great, sometimes it is appropriate product documentation that is lacking e.g @delta
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My biggest concern with my union is its deep reliance on Slack, seconded by Zoom. Yes, there are Slack alternatives, but all of them require a large amount of admin work from someone with a fair amount of experience. They also lack much of the usability features of Slack. (Zoom alternatives are also not suitable for a union our size.) I posted a query a few months ago seeking Slack alternatives. I got a lot of suggestions and I investigated each one. NONE of them were suitable, given our limited resources.
@dangoodin Do you have a clear idea of what's missing from the current slack alternatives? Zoom is too big a beast for me to even consider at the moment.
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I appreciate everyone who has taken time to respond. Unfortunately, some of the responses demonstrate how much many of us privacy-minded technologists live in ivory towers and have no idea how hard it is to get the rest of the world to take on the added friction of switching.
@dangoodin Much the same when people say "Just tell 'em not to run Windows anymore!", etc.
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@annehargreaves @dangoodin funny story, a friend works for a company that is iso 27001 certified, so everyone has to use teams -- because only microsoft is secure enough for enterprise.
but all of the execs still use personal whatsapp for comms, because teams is too hard. 🙃
@airshipper @dangoodin Teams is a total pain.
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@airshipper @dangoodin Teams is a total pain.
@annehargreaves @dangoodin ugh, we are having to write a business case to justify not switching from slack, because teams chat costs way less. "there's a reason!" is not persuading the cfo
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I appreciate everyone who has taken time to respond. Unfortunately, some of the responses demonstrate how much many of us privacy-minded technologists live in ivory towers and have no idea how hard it is to get the rest of the world to take on the added friction of switching.
@dangoodin I love how Linux is always the solution. Folks have no clue how regular people operate. If I were to hand a Linux laptop to any of the smart but non-technical folks I know, they’d struggle hard. Expecting them to install Linux or install and manage a number of FOSS tools? That’s not happening.
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@dangoodin I love how Linux is always the solution. Folks have no clue how regular people operate. If I were to hand a Linux laptop to any of the smart but non-technical folks I know, they’d struggle hard. Expecting them to install Linux or install and manage a number of FOSS tools? That’s not happening.
Right, and often, from there, many of these folks go on to blame the non-technical folks. That only compounds the problem.
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Do you have experience with unions? The ones I know (my wife's and the 3 unions I have been a member of) most definitely don't have the resources required.
@dangoodin only in Denmark/Sweden - where my experience is that all unions have enough resources to write a plan and start executing it. Actually, many of the unions have A LOT of resources. But they're run like corporations that sell a product (memberships, legal protection, networking, post-education). That product is marketed (on social media), hence they all have social media strategies and dedicated employees.
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@dangoodin only in Denmark/Sweden - where my experience is that all unions have enough resources to write a plan and start executing it. Actually, many of the unions have A LOT of resources. But they're run like corporations that sell a product (memberships, legal protection, networking, post-education). That product is marketed (on social media), hence they all have social media strategies and dedicated employees.
And these unions aren't using any of the platforms listed in my OP? Impressive if so.
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@dangoodin I love how Linux is always the solution. Folks have no clue how regular people operate. If I were to hand a Linux laptop to any of the smart but non-technical folks I know, they’d struggle hard. Expecting them to install Linux or install and manage a number of FOSS tools? That’s not happening.
@thomasareed @dangoodin I've had pretty good success doing this. Mint feels very like windows to the people I've helped. And most people are uncomfortable with Word etc. anyway, so Libreoffice is not too tough.
The rub is with people who must use some MS-only program for work or school. Or to connect with work or school. That's a deal breaker.
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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@aeva Put the ubuntu iso image on a usb key and insert it into the computer is all it takes, should be similar on other distros.
netboot.xyz is nice. It's a bootable image which brings up a menu of linux distros to try or install, fetching them over the internet. Install it on a usb key, boot drive, or network boot file.
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@informapirata@www.informapirata.it
Grazie ho letto la prima parte, spiegazione molto interessante, mi sono venuti dei dubbi, magari mi si chiariranno leggendo il resto.
@poliverso@www.informapirata.it @fediverso @poliverso@feddit.it @Informapirata@lemmy.ml @macfranc @test
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Alone season 8 watch thread. I hope there are less dead mammals, especially big ones, than in season 7. Not only is it nearly always a suboptimal strategy, it's depressing.
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OLTRE GLI ALGORITMI: LA GUIDA DEFINITIVA A BOOKWYRM E ALLA RIVOLUZIONE DEL FEDIVERSO.
Se senti che il tuo spazio di lettura digitale è diventato troppo stretto, affollato di pubblicità o limitato da logiche commerciali, è il momento di guardare altrove. La risposta non è un nuovo sito web, ma un intero ecosistema: il Fediverso. E per noi lettori, la porta d’ingresso principale si chiama Bookwyrm.
