I want this but as a Linux distribution.
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@luana @nina_kali_nina @mcc @Timshel Indeed, that's a job for sed or an IDE's refactoring tool if you feel fancy. Doing that kind of work with an LLM is unreliable and ridiculously expensive.
@gabrielesvelto It's interesting to think about why proper refactoring tools have been a lot less successful than LLMs now-days (in term of usage). Is it just cost? or the more "human like interaction" you get from LLMs? or something else?
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@mcc KeePassXC has merged only a little bit of AI-assisted code, not in any critical parts. And there has been no merges of that kind of code since last November. KeePassXC is not preferred to use AI code, but they require people to let them know if they are trying to push code that includes it. It doesn't mean the code will not be reviewed before it's even accessed. Majority of the developers are NOT using AI. Read their blog post.
@mcc I was banned because of my comments? Very nice.
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@CodingPhysicist Note vaultwarden is a separate project and has no specific signs of LLM use as far as I'm aware. I don't know what to do with this information though since surely vaultwarden is usually used with a bitwarden client?
@mcc I'm not aware of any alternative clients and currently I'm using the official Bitwarden ones.
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@benjamineskola @nina_kali_nina @luana @mcc A "no you" reply like this really hammers home the idea that anti-AI sentiment has no real substance behind it and is just a way to virtue signal the in-group political belief. AIs are currently not sentient and yet an LLM could come up with a more elaborate and constructive reply, what does that say about your supposed sentience?
@gsprs virtues are good, virtues are supposed to be signaled, 'tis good to be virtuous and ethical.
(can you tell me what makes the promptfondlers to be so annoyingly proselytyzing though? did anyone ask for your opinion?)
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@mcc I'm not aware of any alternative clients and currently I'm using the official Bitwarden ones.
@CodingPhysicist @mcc I'm aware of two alternative (open source) clients: https://github.com/doy/rbw and https://github.com/quexten/goldwarden (though it seems like the latter is not actively developed anymore).
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@m oh… this post was meant to be a reply to your post https://mastodon.social/@mcc/116115453811522063
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@gabrielesvelto It's interesting to think about why proper refactoring tools have been a lot less successful than LLMs now-days (in term of usage). Is it just cost? or the more "human like interaction" you get from LLMs? or something else?
@fabrice I don't know. I remember using IntelliJ tools for doing significant refactoring on an old Java codebase some 15+ years ago and they were already quite powerful. I don't know why anyone who did not use those kind of tools in the past suddenly feels like an unreliable system is a good idea for mechanical refactoring. 🤷
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@Moore @graydon You've both been around as long as I have, so you've seen this: for literal decades, the "tech" industry has increasingly been "slap together a bunch of open source code to implement a product innovation, without any meaningful technical innovation." LLMs are just the culmination of that process, removing the expensive open-source-gluers from the equation, and, as a bonus, creating code that has been laundered clean of any pesky licensing concerns.
If you play this arc out, it suggests the loss of "indigenous" technical capabilities for anyone but the LLM companies. This is very, very dangerous, given that we seem to be slipping into a global oligarchy.
Very early on, Brazil heavily regulated computer imports, mostly to guarantee that they weren't fully reliant on foreign-origin technology. They understood that embracing tech exclusively owned by the US and Europe was inviting a new form of colonialism. LLMs are the same thing, just in a very cyberpunk corporate feudalism sort of way.
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@gsprs virtues are good, virtues are supposed to be signaled, 'tis good to be virtuous and ethical.
(can you tell me what makes the promptfondlers to be so annoyingly proselytyzing though? did anyone ask for your opinion?)
@mawhrin I couldn’t ask for an example of holier than thou attitude and proselytizing better than the first half of this post, the other half honestly looks like parody after reading it.
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@mawhrin I couldn’t ask for an example of holier than thou attitude and proselytizing better than the first half of this post, the other half honestly looks like parody after reading it.
@gsprs the only people who complain about virtue signalling are the gobshites: the racists, the white supremacists, the misogynists, you know the type.
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@gsprs the only people who complain about virtue signalling are the gobshites: the racists, the white supremacists, the misogynists, you know the type.
@mawhrin And Merriam-Webster too, don’t forget to add them to your list!
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/virtue%20signaling
> the act or practice of conspicuously displaying one's awareness of and attentiveness to political issues, matters of social and racial justice, etc., especially instead of taking effective action
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@mawhrin And Merriam-Webster too, don’t forget to add them to your list!
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/virtue%20signaling
> the act or practice of conspicuously displaying one's awareness of and attentiveness to political issues, matters of social and racial justice, etc., especially instead of taking effective action
@gsprs it's a dictionary; it does not make judgements, merely records usage.
you, on the other hand, make judgements after showing unasked in a thread where you felt compelled to involve yourself in a confabulation machinery advocacy.
and now, have an adequate evening.
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@gsprs it's a dictionary; it does not make judgements, merely records usage.
you, on the other hand, make judgements after showing unasked in a thread where you felt compelled to involve yourself in a confabulation machinery advocacy.
and now, have an adequate evening.
@mawhrin And the usage it records is negative, look up what “conspicuously” means.
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@mawhrin And the usage it records is negative, look up what “conspicuously” means.
@gsprs i see. now: can you tell me in your own words what's wrong with being virtuous and ethical?
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My understanding is that Bitwarden and KeePassXC, the two open source password managers, are *both* using random code generators at this point, which is terrifying as those are the exact tools where a small error could have the largest negative impact, and also tools that once you've committed to using it you can't quickly back out if they enter a code quality decline
@mcc bitwarden ffs. I manage a paid family bitwarden plan and I'm happy with the service but I was planning on moving to proton family pass because of cutting down on us tech & now this
The problem I have with proton pass is that you can't add an account to the family plan if it already has paid proton services so that rules that out as an option
I'm not removing someone's mail plus just to add them to a family pass plan so I'll have to stick with bitwarden a little longer & see how things go
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@fabrice I don't know. I remember using IntelliJ tools for doing significant refactoring on an old Java codebase some 15+ years ago and they were already quite powerful. I don't know why anyone who did not use those kind of tools in the past suddenly feels like an unreliable system is a good idea for mechanical refactoring. 🤷
@gabrielesvelto Because it's super easy to just type "rename this component from X to Y" without knowing details about what you're actually doing.
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@nina_kali_nina @luana @mcc Well to be fair, it was reviewed by ten humans and did pass all the tests: https://github.com/bitwarden/clients/pull/18584
Even given that, I still find the future opaque; will things sort out after the bubble pops in such a way that there's a sane/safe way to get value out of Claude-like software? I'm pretty convinced that YOLO-flavored vibe coding is a path going nowhere but baffled as to how things end up.
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@mcc
AI assisted code generation is here to stay. It's not random and probably one of the best uses for an LLM. I'd only be concerned if LLM generated code was commited without review.I only see 2 PRs that are marked ai-assisted for KeePassXC and neither look like a problem. The large commit @nina_kali_nina to bitwarden/clients also used checkmarx scanner, github-advanced-security scanner and claude to review, but, there are also 11 non-bot reviewers listed on it.
@hack_char @mcc @nina_kali_nina no code should ever be committed without review
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My understanding is that Bitwarden and KeePassXC, the two open source password managers, are *both* using random code generators at this point, which is terrifying as those are the exact tools where a small error could have the largest negative impact, and also tools that once you've committed to using it you can't quickly back out if they enter a code quality decline
@mcc I can guarantee you that the Linux kernel and MacOS/Windows are getting code contributions by "random code generators" as you have put because most of the code pushed on to these projects are by engineers hired by big corporates who mostly have LLM subscriptions.
It is better to acknowledge and understand a tool than to spread FUD about it. I am no AI flag hoister but you are just scaring people away from genuinely good tools (password managers in this case) maintained by the same people for years.
KeePassXC is totally offline which reduces the attack vector a lot anyway. And the file format is open so you can pick from many clients if you don't trust KeePassXC maintainers.
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My understanding is that Bitwarden and KeePassXC, the two open source password managers, are *both* using random code generators at this point, which is terrifying as those are the exact tools where a small error could have the largest negative impact, and also tools that once you've committed to using it you can't quickly back out if they enter a code quality decline
@mcc There are more password managers than those two, of course. I use GNOME Secrets as a desktop GUI application for some things. For the command line there's pass (https://www.passwordstore.org/), which uses GnuPG.
I use my own sopass (https://sopass.liw.fi/), which I wrote myself.
CLI isn't for everyone, but I'm sure we don't need to despair.
Gli ultimi otto messaggi ricevuti dalla Federazione
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Verona: “olimpiadi no grazie”. domenica 22 febbraio manifestazione contro lo spreco di fondi pubblici e la complicita’ nel genocidio a gaza
@anarchia
La rete veronese “Olimpiadi no grazie” ha convocato una manifestazione nazionale domenica 22 febbraio a Verona, in occasione della cerimonia di chiusura dei
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@box464@mastodon.social oh I've been wanting to try that too! Especially if I'm going to be attending other conferences in non-English speaking countries.
@hongminhee@hollo.social mentioned something like this too, earlier when he was at FOSDEM 🙂
Wonder if it's available on Android and runs locally on my phone? That'd be best...
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La marcia dei 40000 ha vinto. #Torino, la fine della piazza operaia - Vita.it https://www.vita.it/idee/torino-la-fine-della-piazza-operaia/
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@stefano to err is human, you are forgiven 😂
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5.000 follower su #Mastodon! Grazie a tutti per aver scelto di seguirmi! È un piacere raccontare la scienza in questo luogo dove il dialogo è costruttivo e il confronto avviene con toni cordiali
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This is computing. Peace was never an option.
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Oh..live translations on iPhone is pretty cool. I need to learn how to use this better. Still not going to make comments and quotes until I feel more confident in how this works.
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@stefano Installing Linux was not an option, I assume…
