If Alice makes a followers-only post, and Bob replies to it, to whom should Bob's reply be visible?
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@evan can the reply be marked followers only from Bob's side?
@maj yes, that's the default for Mastodon, I think. It is only visible to Bob's followers.
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@evan
I would say, To: Alice, cc: both Alice's and Bob's followers, possibly cc: or bcc: a theoretical Collection of all participants in the thread who have not muted the thread by leaving the collection?@silvermoon82 what does the conversation look like to Bob's followers?
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@evan Alice, Alice’s followers, and the subset of Bob’s followers that follow Alice.
@Jeremiah isn't that third set already included in the second?
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@maj yes, that's the default for Mastodon, I think. It is only visible to Bob's followers.
@evan I'm going to need a diagram! This is like set theory.
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@Jeremiah isn't that third set already included in the second?
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@evan Alices followers only. I am tired of fragmented discussions
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@skobkin the question is about what that visibility should be.
@evan No, I mean what visibility out of available options did Bob choose.
If we're talking about Mastodon, currently he'd have "followers" and "mentioned only".Who'll see (and who ideally should see) depends on what he had chosen.
But if we're talking about a default selection (followers only), then we really have two rather different things AFAIR: who'd really see it and who should've been able to see that for it to be easily understandable by the end user. Although I think different people may have different opinions on how exactly should it work.
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@skobkin the question is about what that visibility should be.
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@evan Since the replie is followers-only, to Bob’s followers. Otherwise information that someone with a private account would expect not to be visible to anyone they didn’t approve could be easily leaked to people that they don’t know.
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@Jeremiah isn't that third set already included in the second?
@evan You're right. I would change my vote, but Mastodon.
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@evan there's the correct answer and then there's what happens on fedi
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@evan people who follow both Alice and Bob
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@skobkin the question is about how it should work.
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@evan there's the correct answer and then there's what happens on fedi
@rune the question is about the correct answer.
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@evan I'd argue it should be visible to the intersection, not the union of Alice and Bob's followers. So basically people who follow both of them. There should also be an option to have it be visible to all of Alice's followers.
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@evan Since the replie is followers-only, to Bob’s followers. Otherwise information that someone with a private account would expect not to be visible to anyone they didn’t approve could be easily leaked to people that they don’t know.
@luana what if there was a clear label on who it was going to? "Same audience" or something similar?
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By default, visible to both Alice's and Bob's followers.
But, Bob should be able to change it. Even making visible to everyone.
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@evan people who follow both Alice and Bob
@adam so, in a conversation with Charlene, David, Evan and Frances, there would just be a smaller and smaller circle of people who could follow along? That seems best to you?
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@evan@cosocial.ca when I learned that a reply to a "followers only" post in the Fediverse meant that the replier can choose any visibility they can choose for their own posts, in a discussion that the original poster meant to keep among their followers, it was one of my most WTF moments about ActivityPub.
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@evan I'd argue it should be visible to the intersection, not the union of Alice and Bob's followers. So basically people who follow both of them. There should also be an option to have it be visible to all of Alice's followers.
@LunaDragofelis so, just a smaller and smaller and smaller set of people as the conversation goes on?
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@evan No matter whether Bob replied as "followers only" or " everyone", Bob's followers should be able to see his reply. They shouldn't be able to scroll up and see Alice's orignal post unless they also follow Alice. But Alice's choice for her own post should not override Bob's choice for his.
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Yes, that seems like a good analogy.
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@evan You've never asked anybody who has a private or follows only account about this have you? There doesn't need to be a massive data, but takes one response and it becomes really difficult to decide to follow the sloppy pattern and keep pushing it forward.
It is an easy path forward to do the right thing.
I’m here to help you.
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So that etiquette would demand that Bob limit the visibility of his reply to just Alice, and let her decide how far it should reach beyond that. There's a certain grace there, but does the etiquette of telephony translate to microblogging?
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I’ve always modeled this challenge as a set theory maths problem and the answer is the original set regardless of who is replying, as the original poster set the limiting constraint conditions + selected the members of the group with access to the conversation thread.
Plus there are “n” Bob’s, where “n” is the number of Alice’s followers.
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@skobkin I always read it as "visible for the OPs followers" like it's implied that "followers only" is applied to the root of the thread.
But after our previous discussion this can definitely be clarified 🤔
@evan
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@saerdnaer I didn’t know, sorry 🤦♀️
