Should expatriate citizens of your country have the right to vote?
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@evan @fabio Fabio is right. Expatriate is a term that spun out of white colonizers living in the other parts of the world, where they have no intention of becoming a part of the society, including accepting citizenship.
Would most people call Jamaican temporary foreign workers on Canadian farms that are treated as slave labour "expats"?
When I went to China to work, was I a Canadian expat? Would I be considered one from the lens of a Chinese national vs a Canadian? The place where I was born is a part of China now. I don't even know what my rights are anymore with regards to my birth place. I'm a Canadian citizen.
Expatriate is a term that's drowning in class, racism, and white colonial history. Perhaps you should reconsider its use.
@evan @fabio And further down the thread to:
https://cosocial.ca/@evan/115956282132331931"Country of origin" also gets really messy if you have multiple citizenships and grew up in different places. Or if some citizenships no longer exist (like my birth place).
A clearer, not-problematic question: "Should people who do not permanently reside in their country of citizenship have the right to vote?"
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@evan @fabio Fabio is right. Expatriate is a term that spun out of white colonizers living in the other parts of the world, where they have no intention of becoming a part of the society, including accepting citizenship.
Would most people call Jamaican temporary foreign workers on Canadian farms that are treated as slave labour "expats"?
When I went to China to work, was I a Canadian expat? Would I be considered one from the lens of a Chinese national vs a Canadian? The place where I was born is a part of China now. I don't even know what my rights are anymore with regards to my birth place. I'm a Canadian citizen.
Expatriate is a term that's drowning in class, racism, and white colonial history. Perhaps you should reconsider its use.
I worked in other countries and adopted the expat label, without thinking, frankly just because everyone else was using it.
After some reflection I think that calling myself a "guest worker" was more appropriate. So that is whatI started using toward the end.
Same idea but a bit less formal than "temporary foreign worker".
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@fabio I intentionally chose "expatriate" as an accurate and clear term for describing citizens who live outside their nation of citizenship.
"Expatriate" and "emigrant" are almost synonyms, but "emigrant" is less well known and suggests the immediate aftermath of leaving.
I considered "overseas citizens", "voters abroad", and other terms, but I settled on expatriate because it's clear and accurate.
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@evan @fabio And further down the thread to:
https://cosocial.ca/@evan/115956282132331931"Country of origin" also gets really messy if you have multiple citizenships and grew up in different places. Or if some citizenships no longer exist (like my birth place).
A clearer, not-problematic question: "Should people who do not permanently reside in their country of citizenship have the right to vote?"
@mayintoronto @evan @fabio Just chiming in that I also agree that expat is a bad word and you should consider not using it.
I call myself an immigrant from Brazil. People call themseves immigrants from a country, the government refers to us refers to us as immigrants.
We’re not expats.
Thanks for coming to my talk.
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I worked in other countries and adopted the expat label, without thinking, frankly just because everyone else was using it.
After some reflection I think that calling myself a "guest worker" was more appropriate. So that is whatI started using toward the end.
Same idea but a bit less formal than "temporary foreign worker".
@RuthODay2 For context, the Temporary Foreign Worker program here in Canada is a highly problematic one, where workers are brought in with the right to abode tied to your employer and there's no path to permanent residence.
UN Special Rapporteur dubbed it: a "Breeding Ground’ for Contemporary Forms of Slavery
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/un-report-abuse-temporary-foreign-workers-canada-1.7293495I brought it up because Evan and Fabio are also in Canada.
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@evan
I'm a kiwi (from Aotearoa New Zealand) living in Sweden.I am not an expat, or expatriate citizen. I'm a migrant, something other white folk get upset about when I say "yes, I'm just another migrant over here", when they don't think I count because I'm white, and therefore the right kind.
Expat is just another colonial term.
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@evan @fabio And further down the thread to:
https://cosocial.ca/@evan/115956282132331931"Country of origin" also gets really messy if you have multiple citizenships and grew up in different places. Or if some citizenships no longer exist (like my birth place).
A clearer, not-problematic question: "Should people who do not permanently reside in their country of citizenship have the right to vote?"
@mayintoronto @fabio Great, you should definitely make that poll!
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@mayintoronto @evan @fabio Just chiming in that I also agree that expat is a bad word and you should consider not using it.
I call myself an immigrant from Brazil. People call themseves immigrants from a country, the government refers to us refers to us as immigrants.
We’re not expats.
Thanks for coming to my talk.
@renata @mayintoronto @fabio Expatriate is a problem in a context, and I am not using it in that context.
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@evan @fabio Fabio is right. Expatriate is a term that spun out of white colonizers living in the other parts of the world, where they have no intention of becoming a part of the society, including accepting citizenship.
Would most people call Jamaican temporary foreign workers on Canadian farms that are treated as slave labour "expats"?
When I went to China to work, was I a Canadian expat? Would I be considered one from the lens of a Chinese national vs a Canadian? The place where I was born is a part of China now. I don't even know what my rights are anymore with regards to my birth place. I'm a Canadian citizen.
Expatriate is a term that's drowning in class, racism, and white colonial history. Perhaps you should reconsider its use.
@mayintoronto @fabio In Jamaica, people who are working overseas are called "Jamaicans abroad". There's also a slang term, "yardie".
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@renata @mayintoronto @fabio Expatriate is a problem in a context, and I am not using it in that context.
@evan @renata @mayintoronto For the record, I know. It wasn’t my intention to cause any drama and I enjoy the polls a lot.
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@mayintoronto @fabio Great, you should definitely make that poll!
@evan I'm asking you to reconsider your position on the term "expatriate", and to perhaps refrain from using it in this context in the future.
I don't care about the poll itself, since I know that editing is not an option.
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@evan @fabio Fabio is right. Expatriate is a term that spun out of white colonizers living in the other parts of the world, where they have no intention of becoming a part of the society, including accepting citizenship.
Would most people call Jamaican temporary foreign workers on Canadian farms that are treated as slave labour "expats"?
When I went to China to work, was I a Canadian expat? Would I be considered one from the lens of a Chinese national vs a Canadian? The place where I was born is a part of China now. I don't even know what my rights are anymore with regards to my birth place. I'm a Canadian citizen.
Expatriate is a term that's drowning in class, racism, and white colonial history. Perhaps you should reconsider its use.
@mayintoronto @fabio In Canada, some people who work and live abroad are called "Canadians abroad":
https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/living-abroad
I also like "snowbirds" for the very specific set of people who live abroad only during the winter.
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@mayintoronto @fabio In Canada, some people who work and live abroad are called "Canadians abroad":
https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/living-abroad
I also like "snowbirds" for the very specific set of people who live abroad only during the winter.
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@mayintoronto @fabio Duly noted!
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@mayintoronto @fabio Duly noted!
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@evan @renata @mayintoronto For the record, I know. It wasn’t my intention to cause any drama and I enjoy the polls a lot.
@fabio @renata @mayintoronto No hard feelings! It's an interesting discussion to have.
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@mayintoronto @evan @fabio Just chiming in that I also agree that expat is a bad word and you should consider not using it.
I call myself an immigrant from Brazil. People call themseves immigrants from a country, the government refers to us refers to us as immigrants.
We’re not expats.
Thanks for coming to my talk.
@renata @mayintoronto @fabio also, as far as I can tell with some quick searching, Brazilian emigrants are in fact called "immigrants" even in Brazil. There's definitely a good research paper in that!
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@evan
I'm a kiwi (from Aotearoa New Zealand) living in Sweden.I am not an expat, or expatriate citizen. I'm a migrant, something other white folk get upset about when I say "yes, I'm just another migrant over here", when they don't think I count because I'm white, and therefore the right kind.
Expat is just another colonial term.
@hypostase Feel free to substitute "migrant" or "emigrant" for "expatriate" in the poll if that helps you answer the question better.
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Enough people complained about my use of "expatriate" in this poll that I changed the question.
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@renata @mayintoronto @fabio also, as far as I can tell with some quick searching, Brazilian emigrants are in fact called "immigrants" even in Brazil. There's definitely a good research paper in that!
@evan @mayintoronto @fabio There’s the word emigrante in Portuguese but I don’t think people use it anymore.
A lot of similar words that were used when I was still in school fell into disuse because language is dynamic like that (and that makes me old)
It’s usually two very similar words that mean different things, people keep using one of them more than the other, and the less used eventually gets replaced.
Fabio can talk about that better than me because he studied communications.
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@rakoo @mayintoronto @fabio there are some other words for French citizens living abroad that are used here in Montreal.
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