Hi everyone, I'm on a project, and I've got some queries about #ScreenReaders and symbols.
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Different screenreaders will interpret it differently, and users' settings can also modify how they behave (e.g. how verbose they are, speed etc.)
I just listened to your post with VoiceOver/Mac and it paused sightly to indicate the parenthetical (hydrogen) rather than announce each bracket. The δ character was announced as 'Greek letter delta'.
But that does not mean JAWS or NVDA will behave the same way, nor that another VoiceOver user will have exactly the same experience.
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Hi everyone, I'm on a project, and I've got some queries about #ScreenReaders and symbols. This will also be helpful for me in general.
1. When using a screen reader to read something like this:
... two white spheres (hydrogen) ...
will it read 'two white spheres open bracket hydrogen close bracket?2. When reading H2O (with the 2 as subscript), will it read H subscript 2 O?
3. Finally, with δ (which I think is delta), accompanied by a superscript plus after it, will it simply read delta superscript plus sign?
Thank you!
@saxifraga That highly depends on user's particular settings. For instance, I'm a developer and I use very fast, but very robotic TTS with poor intonation, it suits my pace and habits. So for me, yes, it would read everything. Not sure about the subscripts though, probably not. but what you can do is to spend more time and process this by some tool that would interpret LaTex and output MathML or MathJax. That way at least some screen readers would interpret it as mathematical notation. #Accessibility
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@saxifraga With the brackets, whether or not they're spoken will depend on the user's settings as screen readers allow punctuation announcements to be configured to greater or lesser degrees. With the other two examples it may depend on both the screen reader and speech synthesizer being used, but I just tested two different combinations and they both read correctly.
@alex ah, thank you. I didn’t even think about personal settings.
Good to know that the ones you tried came out correctly. Thank you! -
@saxifraga That highly depends on user's particular settings. For instance, I'm a developer and I use very fast, but very robotic TTS with poor intonation, it suits my pace and habits. So for me, yes, it would read everything. Not sure about the subscripts though, probably not. but what you can do is to spend more time and process this by some tool that would interpret LaTex and output MathML or MathJax. That way at least some screen readers would interpret it as mathematical notation. #Accessibility
Last I checked, super/sub-script support was kinda crap. At least under default settings, settings with some modifications, and default voices.
What CSS you use can also impact it.
I filed three bugs in 2022 and they are still open.
Ref:
https://adrianroselli.com/2022/09/brief-note-on-super-and-subscript-text.html -
Different screenreaders will interpret it differently, and users' settings can also modify how they behave (e.g. how verbose they are, speed etc.)
I just listened to your post with VoiceOver/Mac and it paused sightly to indicate the parenthetical (hydrogen) rather than announce each bracket. The δ character was announced as 'Greek letter delta'.
But that does not mean JAWS or NVDA will behave the same way, nor that another VoiceOver user will have exactly the same experience.
@se_davidobrien Thank you. This is all so helpful for me, including that link.
Good to hear that the brackets weren’t spoken, but as you say, settings will vary.
Thanks again! -
@saxifraga That highly depends on user's particular settings. For instance, I'm a developer and I use very fast, but very robotic TTS with poor intonation, it suits my pace and habits. So for me, yes, it would read everything. Not sure about the subscripts though, probably not. but what you can do is to spend more time and process this by some tool that would interpret LaTex and output MathML or MathJax. That way at least some screen readers would interpret it as mathematical notation. #Accessibility
@menelion Thanks for this. It’s becoming clear that each user has different settings, which may be impossible to catch all.
I’m certainly not a developer, but thinking of how to advise a publisher that’s creating online materials with alt-text. -
@menelion Thanks for this. It’s becoming clear that each user has different settings, which may be impossible to catch all.
I’m certainly not a developer, but thinking of how to advise a publisher that’s creating online materials with alt-text.@saxifraga do your best. Put brackets when they are needed, subscripts and superscripts also, as well as all other stuff. Don't describe in words, that's the worst thing you can do 😊
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Last I checked, super/sub-script support was kinda crap. At least under default settings, settings with some modifications, and default voices.
What CSS you use can also impact it.
I filed three bugs in 2022 and they are still open.
Ref:
https://adrianroselli.com/2022/09/brief-note-on-super-and-subscript-text.html@aardrian thank you. I did wonder about the subscript and superscript. This is for chemistry material, so there’s a lot of this in the alt-text. What I am pleased about is that they’re attempting alt-text.
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@saxifraga do your best. Put brackets when they are needed, subscripts and superscripts also, as well as all other stuff. Don't describe in words, that's the worst thing you can do 😊
@menelion absolutely, thank you. In my work, I’ve not normally come across this kind of alt-text before, hence my queries. The alt-text is there, already written, and I’m reviewing certain things, and this caught my attention.
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@menelion absolutely, thank you. In my work, I’ve not normally come across this kind of alt-text before, hence my queries. The alt-text is there, already written, and I’m reviewing certain things, and this caught my attention.
@saxifraga thanks for asking! It's really appreciated. Better ask than not, there are no stupid questions here.
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