@julian @bengo @darius task forces continue.
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@evan @julian @bengo As chair of the new working group: I want as much work as possible done in the (community oriented, open) CG. I want the CG to bring proposals to the WG and I want the WG to reach out to the CG when we have needs.
The WG exists because W3C policy states that a CG cannot publish normative W3C specifications, only a (Members-only) WG can. I'm going to do the best I can to make the WG run as openly as possible within the framework handed to me.
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@evan @julian @bengo As chair of the new working group: I want as much work as possible done in the (community oriented, open) CG. I want the CG to bring proposals to the WG and I want the WG to reach out to the CG when we have needs.
The WG exists because W3C policy states that a CG cannot publish normative W3C specifications, only a (Members-only) WG can. I'm going to do the best I can to make the WG run as openly as possible within the framework handed to me.
Darius, that's only partially true. Per policy, CG cannot publish normative specifications. It's NOT true that "only a WG can". S6.2.6 explicitly describes how AP can be updated without a WG. It requires W3C staff help, and requires backwards compatibility. Clarifying and improving the spec has always been possible without a WG, but not if W3C staff obstructs it, and not when insiders are determined to publish breaking changes despite lack of consensus in CG.
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Darius, that's only partially true. Per policy, CG cannot publish normative specifications. It's NOT true that "only a WG can". S6.2.6 explicitly describes how AP can be updated without a WG. It requires W3C staff help, and requires backwards compatibility. Clarifying and improving the spec has always been possible without a WG, but not if W3C staff obstructs it, and not when insiders are determined to publish breaking changes despite lack of consensus in CG.
@darius @evan @julian I made the point in SWICG meeting years ago. W3C staff seemed to agree. https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/435#issuecomment-2065436813
There's no reason to keep repeating the half truth because it sounds true, but it's not, so it has clearly caused confusion. If that's the only reason we have a WG, we don't need one. There are other reasons.
There has not been CG consensus on a request to republish AP, and this is a way of venue shopping to a much smaller consensus group.
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@evan @julian @darius @dmitri This is not only about fairness and openness, but even moreso about backwards compatibility and not changing the conformance classes in a way that will effectively 'fork' ActivityPub. Which is why I emailed you Jan 16, 2024 with concerns about the changes to normative references in your draft (no reply). A WG is ONLY needed to make non normative changes affecting conformance classes like you've authored into your draft.
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@darius @evan @julian I made the point in SWICG meeting years ago. W3C staff seemed to agree. https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/435#issuecomment-2065436813
There's no reason to keep repeating the half truth because it sounds true, but it's not, so it has clearly caused confusion. If that's the only reason we have a WG, we don't need one. There are other reasons.
There has not been CG consensus on a request to republish AP, and this is a way of venue shopping to a much smaller consensus group.
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Darius, that's only partially true. Per policy, CG cannot publish normative specifications. It's NOT true that "only a WG can". S6.2.6 explicitly describes how AP can be updated without a WG. It requires W3C staff help, and requires backwards compatibility. Clarifying and improving the spec has always been possible without a WG, but not if W3C staff obstructs it, and not when insiders are determined to publish breaking changes despite lack of consensus in CG.
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@julian @darius @dmitri I think @bengo has brought a lot of healthy skepticism to the CG and WG chartering efforts over the last few years. I'm glad he's worked so hard on this, and I hope he continues to make sure that processes stay open and fair.
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@julian @darius That's not the case!
@dmitri do you have the link for the meeting notes from last Friday? They'd be really helpful for this conversation.
EDIT: Found em in my history! https://hedgedoc.socialweb.coop/MoKSsjLPRwyDoDpKodH_mQ?edit
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@evan @julian @bengo As chair of the new working group: I want as much work as possible done in the (community oriented, open) CG. I want the CG to bring proposals to the WG and I want the WG to reach out to the CG when we have needs.
The WG exists because W3C policy states that a CG cannot publish normative W3C specifications, only a (Members-only) WG can. I'm going to do the best I can to make the WG run as openly as possible within the framework handed to me.
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@julian @bengo @darius task forces continue. We'll use a staging process; most work will continue in the CG. There was a great session in the last CG meeting about this.
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