@glyph Did you quote post something?
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@glyph I am using https://duckduckgo.com/ more than firefox these days. Reason: more private. Or so they promise.
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@amethyst Trend lines suggest that at least half of Firefox users have stopped using it in the last 5 years or so, so I'm curious to hear from them — I was very surprised when I saw the public numbers because some version of the story you just related is the one I hear the most often *socially* from people who talk about Firefox at all, and I kinda assumed that their user population was holding steady as a result.
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@glyph Chrome -> FF about fiveish years ago, for fairly obvious reasons, but never liked FF — it was always super slow and buggy for me (even without extensions, and adding just a few extensions made it lots worse). Switched to Vivaldi 2-3 years ago and am very happy: it’s fast, stable, and has all the key features I want: built-in adblocking, multi-device tab sync, split pane windows, etc.
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@glyph I still use Firefox as my main browser, but I switched to librewolf some time ago to test it. If mozilla keeps pushing unwanted stuff into the browser, I may be tempted to switch permanently
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@glyph I used to run Firefox as my day-to-day browser, but I decided to give Safari a try when upgrading my laptop a while back and was pleasantly surprised by it.
The fact that anyone who cares about mobile (which is everybody) is forced by Apple's iOS policies into testing on Safari means I see fewer sites break than before, and while the privacy controls aren't as fine-grained or powerful as Firefox they still offer what I think is a reasonable baseline. Performance is also decent, and the battery-life impact is hard to beat.
I still keep Firefox installed, and I still use it for some things (especially browser-based games), but I'd say my usage of it has dropped probably 80% or more.
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@glyph I used to run Firefox as my day-to-day browser, but I decided to give Safari a try when upgrading my laptop a while back and was pleasantly surprised by it.
The fact that anyone who cares about mobile (which is everybody) is forced by Apple's iOS policies into testing on Safari means I see fewer sites break than before, and while the privacy controls aren't as fine-grained or powerful as Firefox they still offer what I think is a reasonable baseline. Performance is also decent, and the battery-life impact is hard to beat.
I still keep Firefox installed, and I still use it for some things (especially browser-based games), but I'd say my usage of it has dropped probably 80% or more.
@ubernostrum oh that's interesting. why browser-based games? do you find they perform better, or does the browser-game-dev community test more with it?
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@ubernostrum oh that's interesting. why browser-based games? do you find they perform better, or does the browser-game-dev community test more with it?
@glyph @ubernostrum As a very annoyed browser game developer today: Firefox still hasn't implemented the Web Share API (also for some reason Google doesn't allow it in Android WebView even though Chrome supports it just fine).
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@mario_angst_sci @glyph Even though it's been over ten years now since my last day at Mozilla, I still get irritated whenever salaries are brought up like this.
As just a developer (not an executive), after Mozilla I literally doubled my salary overnight by accepting a job with an ordinary for-profit company. And while you didn't mean it this way, what it feels like when a lot of people complain about Mozilla people getting paid is "you should have been happy to be significantly underpaid during some of your prime earning years, because you were working on an Important Societal Mission and that's more important than money".
And I extend that to discussions of executive pay. Demanding that people be underpaid relative to peers "for the misson" will always bother me.
Or more bluntly: if someone thinks working on important things has to involve being paid less (or even completely unpaid, as is too often the case with open source), I invite them to be the one who does it.
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@glyph @ubernostrum As a very annoyed browser game developer today: Firefox still hasn't implemented the Web Share API (also for some reason Google doesn't allow it in Android WebView even though Chrome supports it just fine).
@coderanger @ubernostrum wait they've had this feature-flagged for 4 years and still haven't enabled it? that's… weird
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@ubernostrum oh that's interesting. why browser-based games? do you find they perform better, or does the browser-game-dev community test more with it?
@glyph I find that on sites like newgrounds a lot of things that just show a blank square of no content in Safari will work in Firefox. Don't know why that is, just that it is. Maybe it's my own settings impacting that, but I still have a pretty locked-down Firefox setup, so I'm skeptical that Safari is somehow even more restrictive.
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@mario_angst_sci @glyph Even though it's been over ten years now since my last day at Mozilla, I still get irritated whenever salaries are brought up like this.
As just a developer (not an executive), after Mozilla I literally doubled my salary overnight by accepting a job with an ordinary for-profit company. And while you didn't mean it this way, what it feels like when a lot of people complain about Mozilla people getting paid is "you should have been happy to be significantly underpaid during some of your prime earning years, because you were working on an Important Societal Mission and that's more important than money".
And I extend that to discussions of executive pay. Demanding that people be underpaid relative to peers "for the misson" will always bother me.
Or more bluntly: if someone thinks working on important things has to involve being paid less (or even completely unpaid, as is too often the case with open source), I invite them to be the one who does it.
@ubernostrum @mario_angst_sci I feel the same way although in the case of the executives, the fact that they are so visibly and aggressively useless in recent years makes it hard to get too mad at people who feel the dissonance there. But "buffoonish mediocrities being paid nonsense disproportionate rates as executives" is of course not particularly a Mozilla-specific issue, as we head into 2026
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@ubernostrum @mario_angst_sci I feel the same way although in the case of the executives, the fact that they are so visibly and aggressively useless in recent years makes it hard to get too mad at people who feel the dissonance there. But "buffoonish mediocrities being paid nonsense disproportionate rates as executives" is of course not particularly a Mozilla-specific issue, as we head into 2026
@glyph @mario_angst_sci I generally avoid getting into arguments about specific executives or policies or whatever. I just think that people who work on societal good should actually be rewarded for doing so, and as far as I'm aware Mozilla exec salaries are still on the low end compared to other household-name tech companies.
And I understand it's a difficult problem: other companies can make huge stock grants to avoid needing to actually pay out hard cash, and Mozilla does not have that option. But I also know what I was making when I worked there, and what my peers at not-even-Big-Tech companies were making, and it really does get to me.
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@glyph I stopped using Firefox when they became an adtech company. Then they became an AI company and did I feel smug.
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@glyph I haven’t dug too deep into the individual bugs yet but Firefox now gives me more grief at work than Safari and that’s saying something.
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@glyph later, a new Mind is born which names itself Even Less Gravitas Than An LLM
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@glyph later, a new Mind is born which names itself Even Less Gravitas Than An LLM
@bitprophet @glyph LCU L'il Language Muddle
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@glyph You just made me want to read Excession. So far the only Culture novel I've read all the way through is The Player of Games. (I read part of Consider Phlebas roughly 12 years ago, but lost interest about halfway through.)
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@glyph You just made me want to read Excession. So far the only Culture novel I've read all the way through is The Player of Games. (I read part of Consider Phlebas roughly 12 years ago, but lost interest about halfway through.)
@matt they’re all surprisingly different and so it’s hard to have a scalar ranking but I think Excession might be my favorite?
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@matt they’re all surprisingly different and so it’s hard to have a scalar ranking but I think Excession might be my favorite?
@matt be aware that "but backwards" is doing a *ton* of heavy lifting here, this is a joke intended for those who have already read it :)
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@glyph this is 17776 inventing hyper football again