Brilliant news!

[edent@mastodon.social]

@revk TBH, it seems to change regularly. When we had ours done 5ish years ago it required DNO sign off, I think.

But, yeah, with all the grid upgrades going on it looks like it is just a regulatory problem.

[inpc@go.mxtthxw.art]

@Edent I wonder why they were illegal in the first st place, are they notorious shoplifters or something?

[walrus@toot.wales]

@revk @Edent

I think you're right. Most meters presumably only measure what comes in. we have a separate export meter for our solar panels.

[edent@mastodon.social]

@Walrus @revk
All smart meters will measure export.
You probably have a separate "generation" meter. That was mostly useful when the FIT was still being paid out.

[edent@mastodon.social]

@inpc because the grid was originally designed to support electricity flowing in one direction.

It's a bit like asking why it's illegal to connect your sewage pipe back into the mains. It wasn't designed for that and it carries risks.

Thankfully, the grid is mostly upgraded and can now handle energy flowing in both directions.

[vfrmedia@social.tchncs.de]

@Edent @revk from the press release it seems the govt are working on making the process and regulations clearer to deal with (a consumer is going to have to tell the supplier to get the export enabled on the smart meter and the second MPAN allocated)

However DNO infrastructure isn't always the best (neighbour with 0 export, EV's or anything like that had a service cable failure, it took a month for UKPN to remove the temporary link from the next door house and rebuild the cable, which involved a week of having the road up and parking restrictions outside my house). There's also been at least one "make pumps 2" fire from an overloaded service cable on my street..

[inpc@go.mxtthxw.art]

@Edent thanks for the explaination.

I'm now tempted to plug a sewage pipe back into the mains for the lolz tho.

[sheddi@mstdn.party]

@revk @Walrus @Edent
I'm not an electrical engineer so this might not be the whole story.

As you add generation to the local distribution network, and assuming there's not enough local demand to consume it all, the voltage rises. Eventually it gets to 258V (230+12%) which is the upper tolerance limit. At that point, local generation starts to shut down.

1/2

[sheddi@mstdn.party]

@revk @Walrus @Edent

All well and good, but folk then start to complain to their suppliers (and from there to the DNO) that, on sunny summer days, their solar inverter has shut down and they've missed out on savings/earnings.

The DNO limit / permission process is designed to keep export low enough that the local network rarely reaches 258V and they don't get deluged with complaints from their customers.

2/2

[christo_459@mastodon.me.uk]

@Edent
Not if you live on a listed residential estate

[edent@mastodon.social]

@Christo_459 You should write to your MP and assembly member to let them know your concerns.

But, it looks like you can apply for consent for a listed building.
https://historicengland.org.uk/advice/technical-advice/building-services-engineering/installing-photovoltaics/consents-permissions/

[zymurgic@mastodon.online]

@sheddi @revk @Walrus @Edent isn't that why the DNOs are currently suggesting to lower the official supply voltage in the UK to a lower voltage, to closer to the official 230v from the traditional 240v ish, to create more headroom?

[balkonsolar@freiburg.social]

@sheddi @Edent Don’t buy them at LIDL. Please not.

[christo_459@mastodon.me.uk]

@Edent
Thanks

[edent@mastodon.social]

@balkonsolar @sheddi

OK. Want to give a reason why?

[phoerious@mastodon.social]

@Edent @OneInterestingFact Plug-in solar is usually not enough that feeding into the grid is actually worth it (mostly depends on how many forms you have to fill, but you are usually also not paid enough). The main reason you want to have a solar panel on your balcony is to cover your own consumption. Add battery storage to it and you can be quite independent of the grid for a large part of the year.

[phoerious@mastodon.social]

@fishidwardrobe @Edent You plug it into your wall and it makes your meter run more slowly or in reverse. Plug-in solar inverters also often come with apps to track your production.

[inkomtech@infosec.exchange]

@Edent power / sec nerd here. How does this not energize intentionally-deenergized lines? Mustn’t cook line repair crews.

[edent@mastodon.social]

@InkomTech because an inverter matches the frequency it sees from the grid. If there's no frequency, it doesn't output.
That's how all solar inverters work.

[nowster@fedi.nowster.me.uk]

@sheddi@mstdn.party @revk@toot.me.uk @Walrus@toot.wales @Edent@mastodon.social There were mutterings recently of dropping the substation voltage to nearer the lower end of the tolerance band to accommodate more domestic PV contribution.

Nominally we are 230V but most British¹ domestic supplies are still 240V when measured.

__
¹ Northern Ireland is a separate grid and might be doing their own thing.