@cobra I *do* understand that people grow up.
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@cobra So, to ask directly:
1. Has Jason apologized for his behavior to the people and groups he has harmed?
2. What steps have the Tuwunel project taken to ensure they can participate in Matrix spec development?
3. If the answer is none, how can the project provide assurances that it is sustainable. Part of sustainability in a server implementation is active development of the protocol itself. For example how Charybdis kick started IRCv3.
Tuwunel has made thousands of users happy over the past year and I've worked to continue improving the Matrix experience for everyone one deployment at a time. You are mistaken that sustainability has anything to do with protocol development, but even if it did, we have been active participants starting from the work I did under Project Hydra.
The companies and governments that started to rely on conduwuit required the sustainability it currently enjoys today with Tuwunel.
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Tuwunel has made thousands of users happy over the past year and I've worked to continue improving the Matrix experience for everyone one deployment at a time. You are mistaken that sustainability has anything to do with protocol development, but even if it did, we have been active participants starting from the work I did under Project Hydra.
The companies and governments that started to rely on conduwuit required the sustainability it currently enjoys today with Tuwunel.
What happened to June was really upsetting and I can't find a single word in any of your posts with the slightest amount of empathy. Maybe it's you who should read some Edith Stein rather than mocking it.
Please don't stir inter-project drama. Please don't solicit apologies vicariously. A lot has happened in the past ten years: it's time you let go of your ambitions to be an IRCop and blaming me or anyone else about freenode. Nobody has any idea what you're talking about.
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What happened to June was really upsetting and I can't find a single word in any of your posts with the slightest amount of empathy. Maybe it's you who should read some Edith Stein rather than mocking it.
Please don't stir inter-project drama. Please don't solicit apologies vicariously. A lot has happened in the past ten years: it's time you let go of your ambitions to be an IRCop and blaming me or anyone else about freenode. Nobody has any idea what you're talking about.
@cobra @jasonzemos what ambition to be an ircop? Been there, done that, multiple times including on freenode. Who cares? I have no desire to relive the glory days of my youth K-Lining GNAA script kiddies and getting DDoSed at home.
I am just trying to figure out what matrix server is not a waste of my time, because it is the present and I want to maintain my own sovereignty.
Maybe from a technical point of view your project is fine for my needs. I have no doubt there. But free software is also about ethics and sustainability.
Therefore, I think asking if you have sorted out your problem with matrix.org after breaking #matrix-hq is a relevant question to that end given that if you ever need changes to the protocol you will need to work with them. So, have you?
Given that every time I have tried to use a Matrix server that is not Synapse it eventually quit working because it fell behind the spec, I think it is important to be able to work with the people maintaining the spec.
I believe asking these questions and being candid about concerns is aligned with Edith Stein's model of empathetic communication.
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@cobra @jasonzemos what ambition to be an ircop? Been there, done that, multiple times including on freenode. Who cares? I have no desire to relive the glory days of my youth K-Lining GNAA script kiddies and getting DDoSed at home.
I am just trying to figure out what matrix server is not a waste of my time, because it is the present and I want to maintain my own sovereignty.
Maybe from a technical point of view your project is fine for my needs. I have no doubt there. But free software is also about ethics and sustainability.
Therefore, I think asking if you have sorted out your problem with matrix.org after breaking #matrix-hq is a relevant question to that end given that if you ever need changes to the protocol you will need to work with them. So, have you?
Given that every time I have tried to use a Matrix server that is not Synapse it eventually quit working because it fell behind the spec, I think it is important to be able to work with the people maintaining the spec.
I believe asking these questions and being candid about concerns is aligned with Edith Stein's model of empathetic communication.
1. Your premise is provably inapposite: Dendrite worked with the spec in literally the same office and it wasn't sustainable.
2. Your concern is ethically dubious: you accused me of harassing people, yet it only crosses your moral line when it comes to stealing ops in a chatroom?
3. You spent 95% of the thread answering your own question by libeling me. So what did you learn from yourself today?
You are like 45, what are you still doing on here arguing with these teenagers
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1. Your premise is provably inapposite: Dendrite worked with the spec in literally the same office and it wasn't sustainable.
2. Your concern is ethically dubious: you accused me of harassing people, yet it only crosses your moral line when it comes to stealing ops in a chatroom?
3. You spent 95% of the thread answering your own question by libeling me. So what did you learn from yourself today?
You are like 45, what are you still doing on here arguing with these teenagers
1. You harassed Christel on numerous occasions, including commenting on her weight and dietary habits. This was in retaliation for being K-Lined, the tit for tat harassment for K-Line pattern was sustained for months.
2. Later when you had a disagreement with Matthew of matrix.org, you injected an invalid event into #matrix-hq which broke the channel history prior to 2017 permanently. This is why #matrix-hq history is not browsable past the point of your invalid event. As a result you were excluded from participation in matrix.org spaces.
3. Several other people have privately DMed evidence of harassment from you targeted at them. I have no comment on that evidence as I did not directly observe the behavior.
4. Given the above there are two forks of a project that you were heavily involved in. One side seems to be pretty clear about their fork intentionally excluding you. You and your associates assert that these people harassed the founder of Conduwuit, but there are only screenshots of individuals talking which lack any authenticating information, and without authenticating information these screenshots could be easily staged. Every event in Matrix is signed, show us the signatures.
5. Given the above points I am led to believe that Conduwuit splintering into two downstream forks is at least somehow related to your behavior.
6. You did not answer my question: have you resolved your CoC issue with Matrix.org or not? Based on your evasion of this question I am forced to assume not.
7. Yes, I think a permanent DoS on a production channel's history crosses a line that most ethical security researchers would not cross. I also think channel takeovers (which was not the result of what you did, but maybe that was your intent) are an ethical security line most ethical security researchers would not cross.
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1. You harassed Christel on numerous occasions, including commenting on her weight and dietary habits. This was in retaliation for being K-Lined, the tit for tat harassment for K-Line pattern was sustained for months.
2. Later when you had a disagreement with Matthew of matrix.org, you injected an invalid event into #matrix-hq which broke the channel history prior to 2017 permanently. This is why #matrix-hq history is not browsable past the point of your invalid event. As a result you were excluded from participation in matrix.org spaces.
3. Several other people have privately DMed evidence of harassment from you targeted at them. I have no comment on that evidence as I did not directly observe the behavior.
4. Given the above there are two forks of a project that you were heavily involved in. One side seems to be pretty clear about their fork intentionally excluding you. You and your associates assert that these people harassed the founder of Conduwuit, but there are only screenshots of individuals talking which lack any authenticating information, and without authenticating information these screenshots could be easily staged. Every event in Matrix is signed, show us the signatures.
5. Given the above points I am led to believe that Conduwuit splintering into two downstream forks is at least somehow related to your behavior.
6. You did not answer my question: have you resolved your CoC issue with Matrix.org or not? Based on your evasion of this question I am forced to assume not.
7. Yes, I think a permanent DoS on a production channel's history crosses a line that most ethical security researchers would not cross. I also think channel takeovers (which was not the result of what you did, but maybe that was your intent) are an ethical security line most ethical security researchers would not cross.
@ariadne @cobra You plagiarized my patches in charybdis which fixed your bugs at christel's request. Once you took that bait they outed you as being dishonest and charybdis never saw a minute of deployment on freenode. You're still angry about that, but I'm not the one you should blame. Blame yourself.
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@ariadne @cobra You plagiarized my patches in charybdis which fixed your bugs at christel's request. Once you took that bait they outed you as being dishonest and charybdis never saw a minute of deployment on freenode. You're still angry about that, but I'm not the one you should blame. Blame yourself.
@cobra @jasonzemos No. After great deliberation, we rewrote the git history to delete your patches in their entirety and then re-fixed a few bugs. The alternative was to have the entire project KLINECHAN'd which would have done great harm to the careers of several core Charybdis authors since at that time freenode was the hub of FOSS development discussion.
And, freenode ran a customized version of Charybdis for 15 years called ircd-seven. And now Libera runs Solanum, which is a continuation of that very tree where your patches were stripped.
To be clear, I think christel overstepped in threatening the project but I was not going to kill everyone's career over it. That's why everyone quit the project after giving her what she wanted, myself included.
You still haven't answered my question about the Matrix.org CoC ban.
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@cobra @jasonzemos No. After great deliberation, we rewrote the git history to delete your patches in their entirety and then re-fixed a few bugs. The alternative was to have the entire project KLINECHAN'd which would have done great harm to the careers of several core Charybdis authors since at that time freenode was the hub of FOSS development discussion.
And, freenode ran a customized version of Charybdis for 15 years called ircd-seven. And now Libera runs Solanum, which is a continuation of that very tree where your patches were stripped.
To be clear, I think christel overstepped in threatening the project but I was not going to kill everyone's career over it. That's why everyone quit the project after giving her what she wanted, myself included.
You still haven't answered my question about the Matrix.org CoC ban.
@ariadne @cobra Listen, you have acted incredibly callous and disrespectful to June this entire time and it's gross. I have no interest in answering any of your questions. I don't care what your assessment of the software ecosystem is or the dramatic narratives you find entertaining. I don't need you as a user and I wouldn't wish this on any community.
Ultimately I don't care which server you choose, and you shouldn't bring this garbage to either of them.
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@ariadne @cobra Listen, you have acted incredibly callous and disrespectful to June this entire time and it's gross. I have no interest in answering any of your questions. I don't care what your assessment of the software ecosystem is or the dramatic narratives you find entertaining. I don't need you as a user and I wouldn't wish this on any community.
Ultimately I don't care which server you choose, and you shouldn't bring this garbage to either of them.
@cobra @jasonzemos how is asking questions about *you* disrespectful to someone else?
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@cobra @jasonzemos how is asking questions about *you* disrespectful to someone else?
@ariadne @cobra You've completely minimized the feelings and shrugged the experience of someone who I worked with to build something of value. We've made a lot of people happy, and now we've saved a lot of businesses money. We put in the work. Twice. When drama like this was too much for conduwuit to endure, we started it from scratch all over again and built it back beyond where it was. What have you done? Throw around accusations and judgments? Try to tear it down? You're capable of better.
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@ariadne @cobra You've completely minimized the feelings and shrugged the experience of someone who I worked with to build something of value. We've made a lot of people happy, and now we've saved a lot of businesses money. We put in the work. Twice. When drama like this was too much for conduwuit to endure, we started it from scratch all over again and built it back beyond where it was. What have you done? Throw around accusations and judgments? Try to tear it down? You're capable of better.
@cobra @jasonzemos I have acknowledged the screenshots, but screenshots are meaningless in a protocol where every event is cryptographically attested by design.
I do not think asking for the events in the screenshots to be authenticated back to the alleged actors is unreasonable in a protocol that is designed to provide this level of attestation.
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@lakelady I followed along in the notes!
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