Because a LOT of people are missing the point:
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@cstross thanks for pointing it out that clearly. I went through several articles yesterday to find out why the hell someone would think putting a data center in space would be beneficial.
And the only argument every journalist was citing besides "Sam Altman said it in a podcast" was 24/7 solar power, independent of weather. Which is not true for most lower orbits (earth's shadow), and still doesn't solve cooling, too little power, limited up/down link and maintenance problems.
So that it's just bullshit to sound futuristic to the dumbest of the dumbest makes a lot of sense. -
@jb I don't approve of capitalism occupying Earth orbit; my point was that (at least according to Manley, and what I do understand of physics and orbital mechanics) it's not implausible that what the Muskrat is doing here is actually sensible from a capitalist standpoint.
His whole existence is a grift, and he needs to be stopped, but this particular part of it seems far less of a con than (e.g.) the "cybertruck".
Space is a little more hostile than the deepest parts of the ocean. Except in one way: there's no atmosphere to block the nastiest bits of radiation out there.
Computers really do not like radiation. They like it less than DNA does, and are more sensitive to it. And the smaller the fab size of the chip is, the more sensitive it'll be to ionizing radiation.
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Space is a little more hostile than the deepest parts of the ocean. Except in one way: there's no atmosphere to block the nastiest bits of radiation out there.
Computers really do not like radiation. They like it less than DNA does, and are more sensitive to it. And the smaller the fab size of the chip is, the more sensitive it'll be to ionizing radiation.
So, if you put a bunch of computers in orbit, ignoring the hard problems like heat, cooling, moving heat away from sensitive components, per KG fuel costs to get it in orbit, fitting the shit in to geostationary, or other high orbit.
You still have "how do you deal with equipment failures and loss of components" and "get enough up there to ensure redundancy".
I don't know if you've built a datacenter, but that's a bunch of mass to move.
@cstross -
Space is a little more hostile than the deepest parts of the ocean. Except in one way: there's no atmosphere to block the nastiest bits of radiation out there.
Computers really do not like radiation. They like it less than DNA does, and are more sensitive to it. And the smaller the fab size of the chip is, the more sensitive it'll be to ionizing radiation.
@jb Yep, Manley discusses that issue -- specifically mentioning the visible degradation of external cameras on the ISS as an example.
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So, if you put a bunch of computers in orbit, ignoring the hard problems like heat, cooling, moving heat away from sensitive components, per KG fuel costs to get it in orbit, fitting the shit in to geostationary, or other high orbit.
You still have "how do you deal with equipment failures and loss of components" and "get enough up there to ensure redundancy".
I don't know if you've built a datacenter, but that's a bunch of mass to move.
@cstrossShort answer: there are also some major advantages, which right now are very much outweighed by the disadvantages.
It all depends on the pricing of space access, and whether it gets cheap enough fast enough to make this idea pay off.
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It'd have to be as cheap as shipping a fully laden 40ft intermodal (ISO 668) container from Oakland to Shanghai before its actually economical. That's about $3000 USD for the container, not counting cargo, insurance, etc.. Max capacity is about 30500 kg.
That's getting a datacenter in orbit, securely, with cooling, radiators, shielding, power, and redundancy for under $3/kg.
That's not going to happen.
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It'd have to be as cheap as shipping a fully laden 40ft intermodal (ISO 668) container from Oakland to Shanghai before its actually economical. That's about $3000 USD for the container, not counting cargo, insurance, etc.. Max capacity is about 30500 kg.
That's getting a datacenter in orbit, securely, with cooling, radiators, shielding, power, and redundancy for under $3/kg.
That's not going to happen.
@woozle Even then, it's not actually economical if the customers aren't willing to pay extra for the resources, which will be highly latent in a world that despises latency.
You end up with Sealand all over again, where the idea is better than the implementation ever can be.
Eventually, you have orbiting scrap, cluttering the sky, slowly decaying in orbit.
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@cstross that is what he does. He promises things, puts people he employs in a positon of trying to make it work, doesn't deliver, and the cycle starts again.
And some people chose to believe that *this time* it will be true.
@axx @cstross He's succeeded twice: the Tesla Model S was the first mass-produced electric vehicle that wasn't a compliance car, and the Falcon 9 brought the cost of spaceflight down by at least an order of magnitude. If he didn't keep over-hyping his goals and doubling down on his failures, he'd be remembered as a genius -- Edison, for example, had numerous flops for each wild success.
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My rules for brain implants:
1. I will not alpha or beta test; in fact I think waiting for v3.25 is probably for the best
2. Must run Open Source software *not using any dependencies requiring a Package Manager*
3. Must not require *any* kind of 'cloud' to operate, must work fine without a network connection, and must be locally configurable
4. You know what? Even if it meets rules 1 to 3 I'm still not too hot on the idea…
@jackwilliambell @cstross @ApostateEnglishman open hardware as well, and with parts standard enough that they don't depend on a single manufacturing company
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My rules for brain implants:
1. I will not alpha or beta test; in fact I think waiting for v3.25 is probably for the best
2. Must run Open Source software *not using any dependencies requiring a Package Manager*
3. Must not require *any* kind of 'cloud' to operate, must work fine without a network connection, and must be locally configurable
4. You know what? Even if it meets rules 1 to 3 I'm still not too hot on the idea…
@ApostateEnglishman @jackwilliambell @cstross
Brain implants are and were dumb on their face.
It turns out we have several excellent brain interfaces available and honed over millions of years of evolution - our eyes, ears, hands, voice, and a bunch of more subtle ones like touch and balance. They are intuitive, built-in, and free. And none of them are permanently invasive, which saves all sorts of biology issues.
The only real use-case for any sort of implant is where you have no alternative - the pacemaker comes to mind. The rest are someone trying to sell you something you don't need or want.
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@ApostateEnglishman @jackwilliambell @cstross
Brain implants are and were dumb on their face.
It turns out we have several excellent brain interfaces available and honed over millions of years of evolution - our eyes, ears, hands, voice, and a bunch of more subtle ones like touch and balance. They are intuitive, built-in, and free. And none of them are permanently invasive, which saves all sorts of biology issues.
The only real use-case for any sort of implant is where you have no alternative - the pacemaker comes to mind. The rest are someone trying to sell you something you don't need or want.
@ApostateEnglishman @jackwilliambell @cstross @tbortels
There's also the option of external devices which communicate directly with the brain, no hole in the head required. -
@woozle Even then, it's not actually economical if the customers aren't willing to pay extra for the resources, which will be highly latent in a world that despises latency.
You end up with Sealand all over again, where the idea is better than the implementation ever can be.
Eventually, you have orbiting scrap, cluttering the sky, slowly decaying in orbit.
I could address these points... but it kind of feels like you mainly want to establish the idea that "this is a really bad idea", which I agree is true right now and for the reasonably foreseeable future.
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Because a LOT of people are missing the point:
No, Elon Musk is NOT serious about putting a million data centres into orbit. It can't work: laws of physics say "nope".
But SpaceX is expected to go public this year.
Elon is talking up his company's future prospects in front of gullible investors because he needs a growth narrative beyond Starlink, which is already priced in. Something to justify the Starship proram beyond NASA's lunar ambitions.
So it's salesman's bullshit, lies for fools.
@cstross bla bla bla bla bla
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@ApostateEnglishman @jackwilliambell @cstross @tbortels
There's also the option of external devices which communicate directly with the brain, no hole in the head required.@HighlandLawyer @ApostateEnglishman @cstross @tbortels
Then the rules still apply. If it can change my brain state? I will have a difficult time trusting it. In truth? I sometimes distrust my own senses.
Human perceptions are imperfect and brain-mediated. Ever look at anything and simply not see some detail on it until it's pointed out for you? Ever hallucinate? Not smell a stink because you got used to it?
We get ALL information via lofi, low-trust channels. We cannot trust our lying eyes.
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@HighlandLawyer @ApostateEnglishman @cstross @tbortels
Then the rules still apply. If it can change my brain state? I will have a difficult time trusting it. In truth? I sometimes distrust my own senses.
Human perceptions are imperfect and brain-mediated. Ever look at anything and simply not see some detail on it until it's pointed out for you? Ever hallucinate? Not smell a stink because you got used to it?
We get ALL information via lofi, low-trust channels. We cannot trust our lying eyes.
@HighlandLawyer @ApostateEnglishman @cstross @tbortels
This one fact deeply underscores the importance of the 'Scientific Method' in understanding the universe. Science isn't perfect either, but it has trust-protocols.
Your senses don't.
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My rules for brain implants:
1. I will not alpha or beta test; in fact I think waiting for v3.25 is probably for the best
2. Must run Open Source software *not using any dependencies requiring a Package Manager*
3. Must not require *any* kind of 'cloud' to operate, must work fine without a network connection, and must be locally configurable
4. You know what? Even if it meets rules 1 to 3 I'm still not too hot on the idea…
@jackwilliambell @cstross @ApostateEnglishman
My one brain implant rule: all software must be in #Debian `stable`/`main`. This means:
a) it, and all dependencies, are DFSG-compatible https://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines
b) and have 3 years support by the Debian security team https://www.debian.org/security/faq#lifespan
c) and maybe 5 years https://www.debian.org/lts/
d) and passed the freeze process with no RC-bugs that would have kept them out of the release https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ftparchives#frozen
…and also still not too hot on the idea 🙂
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NOTE: Those rules used to be much simpler. More along the lines of, "Not anything using Microsoft or Oracle software."
ETA: Insert joke about, "Blue Screen of Death."
@jackwilliambell @cstross @ApostateEnglishman could be worse.
Clippy.
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Because a LOT of people are missing the point:
No, Elon Musk is NOT serious about putting a million data centres into orbit. It can't work: laws of physics say "nope".
But SpaceX is expected to go public this year.
Elon is talking up his company's future prospects in front of gullible investors because he needs a growth narrative beyond Starlink, which is already priced in. Something to justify the Starship proram beyond NASA's lunar ambitions.
So it's salesman's bullshit, lies for fools.
@cstross Tesla is tanking. Starlink is becoming the DSL of the wireless internet (greedily oversubscribed bandwidth slowing it ... ....d o w n ...). Musk needs another source of suckers...er...investors... to fuel his rightwing apartheid ego.
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Because a LOT of people are missing the point:
No, Elon Musk is NOT serious about putting a million data centres into orbit. It can't work: laws of physics say "nope".
But SpaceX is expected to go public this year.
Elon is talking up his company's future prospects in front of gullible investors because he needs a growth narrative beyond Starlink, which is already priced in. Something to justify the Starship proram beyond NASA's lunar ambitions.
So it's salesman's bullshit, lies for fools.
Elon has always excelled at selling impossible future stuff to the rubes. When his businesses are evaluated based on performance like Tesla is now, it's disastrous. That's also why he is pivoting to robot cars.
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https://www.peacelink.it/editoriale/a/51039.html
Sta per scadere il NewStart. Eppure, di fronte a questa scadenza cruciale la nostra reazione come pacifisti è insufficiente. Non si vedono mobilitazioni di rilievo.
La domanda è semplice e insieme drammatica: andremo verso una nuova espansione degli arsenali nucleari o manterremo – almeno – gli equilibri attuali? Il tempo stringe, ma il movimento pacifista, dobbiamo ammetterlo con onestà, non sta lanciando l'allarme.
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Sta per scadere il trattato storico per limitare le armi nucleari strategiche.
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@francina1909 Peggio d'un gatto nero.
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@aeva Too late. I regarded.
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Il trattato New start sta per scadere: perché si è tornati a parlare di guerra nucleare
https://www.today.it/mondo/trattato-new-start-guerra-nucleare.htmlL'accordo per la limitazione delle testate sarà in vigore fino al 5 febbraio.
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Sono già 6 i Paesi UE “volenterosi digitali” contro i social network. Anche la Spagna proporrà il divieto ai minori di 16 anni
@news
https://www.eunews.it/2026/02/03/sono-gia-6-i-paesi-ue-volenterosi-digitali-contro-i-social-network-anche-la-spagna-proporra-il-divieto-ai-minori-di-16-anni/
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